**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · 2018-01-20T00:10:07Z

Nivex 🐧 📻 @nivex

https://www.securemessagingapps.com/

Every time I mention Wire, someone gets all up in my timeline about how it leaks metadata and that Signal is the most secure. Having to use your phone number is a pretty impressive hunk of metadata to leak, yo.

"But there are workarounds!" If your first response is to suggest a *workaround*, you've ignored the fundamental design flaw.

Of course, neither of them use #IPv6, so it's hard for me get excited about either one. I go where my friends are (firmly entrenched).

Jan 20, 2018, 00:10 · Web · 4 · 7

**virus.media** @vrsmd@mstdn.io · Jan 20, 2018, 00:27

**virus.media** @vrsmd@mstdn.io · Jan 20, 2018, 00:27

@nivex +1 for wire, its best one I've found if you folks to actually use it

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:29

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:29

@vrsmd I tried to get people interested in moving to Wire. I have three people on my list, and only one I really talked to. Most of my contacts are on Signal. I've got a couple that won't leave WhatsApp, but one is my best friend so I deal :)

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:28

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:28

@nivex
tox.chat is missing there though.

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:30

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:30

@danyspin97 That's covered in the FAQ.

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:34

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:34

@nivex
Ah, seen now. Still a silly reason :(

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:38

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:38

@danyspin97 I just looked at tox.chat. Looks pretty impressive but much steeper learning curve. I think the comparison site was geared toward tools marketed at a more general audience.

If I had my way we'd all be using XMPP and possibly OMEMO. Standards are great, there's so many to choose from.

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:43

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:43

@nivex
Learning curve can be improved, design flaws cannot. So yeah, i would add it as a "in development" alternative. I still didn't have any luck finding someone that wants to try it.

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 00:48

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 00:48

@nivex @danyspin97 I haven't found any good mobile app.

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:56

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:56

@DC7IA

@nivex

Android: https://github.com/Antox/Antox

iOS: https://antidote.im

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:59

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 00:59

@nivex @DC7IA
They are still in an alpha state, but they should work.

There is also a terminal client for PC. The only thing tox needs now is an increasing userbase. With it, clients will improve faster.

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 10:22

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 10:22

@danyspin97 @DC7IA @nivex Yeah, but no good mobile app for XMPP.

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 10:23

**DanySpin97** @danyspin97@fosstodon.org · Jan 20, 2018, 10:23

@DC7IA
@nivex

This is a good reason to switch over Tox.chat

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 00:41

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 00:41

@nivex I use Telegram for groups and Signal because it cas E2E.

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:42

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:42

@DC7IA Everything I've read about Telegram has me running in the other direction.

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 00:46

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 00:46

@nivex @DC7IA Well, these are public groups. 💁

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 00:49

**🦄 jоsнυα 🌈** @DC7IA@chaos.social · Jan 20, 2018, 00:49

@nivex @DC7IA The big disadvantage of Wire is the need of Google Play Service.

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:55

**Nivex 🐧 📻** @nivex · Jan 20, 2018, 00:55

@DC7IA On the flip side, the web client is a first-class citizen, so no need of installing yet another Electron app on the desktop.

**Jon Yoder** @JonYoder@mastodon.cloud · Jan 20, 2018, 01:10

**Jon Yoder** @JonYoder@mastodon.cloud · Jan 20, 2018, 01:10

@nivex I like both #Wire and #Signal. They're great. Secure and easy to use and if you don't mind Electron apps (I don't), they beat just about anything else out there.

**byron** @byronalley@mastodon.social · Jan 20, 2018, 03:40

**byron** @byronalley@mastodon.social · Jan 20, 2018, 03:40

@nivex That table is great and it also basically shows how all of them have problems. For me having it be open source is a pretty big deal in terms of trust.

**Andrew Ford Lyons** @aiefel@mastodon.social · Jan 20, 2018, 11:51

**Andrew Ford Lyons** @aiefel@mastodon.social · Jan 20, 2018, 11:51

@nivex Well said. I don't consider Wire or Signal to be anonymity tools, and people needing that should be looking at things that don't require log in details to use, such as a quick Meet Jitsi session or the like, or get further into their use habits. Anything that you can avoid tying to Real You is an anonymity tool. And that's the hard part.

**💾 UberGeek.bak** @UberGeek@social.buffalomesh.net · Jan 20, 2018, 16:19

**💾 UberGeek.bak** @UberGeek@social.buffalomesh.net · Jan 20, 2018, 16:19

@aiefel @nivex I think too many people confuse secure communications, and anonymous communications.

**Andrew Ford Lyons** @aiefel@mastodon.social · Jan 22, 2018, 16:48

**Andrew Ford Lyons** @aiefel@mastodon.social · Jan 22, 2018, 16:48

@UberGeek @nivex This is true. though, I suppose it depends on what you're trying to secure. Anonymity is about securing access to the knowledge of who you really are. That's all.

**💾 UberGeek.bak** @UberGeek@social.buffalomesh.net · Jan 22, 2018, 17:28

**💾 UberGeek.bak** @UberGeek@social.buffalomesh.net · Jan 22, 2018, 17:28

@aiefel @nivex True, true... I guess when I say "secure" communications, it's a channel where an eavesdropper cannot see the content. Anonymous means an eavesdropper might be able to read the content, but doesn't know source/destination.