✅ helped a colleague
✅ supported an artist I like
✅ did some first aid in taking off a tick of a colleague
✅ Discovering a new hidden universe on the internet
Day is going well so far.
@ckeen tell me more about the new universe on the Internet?
@kensanata @ckeen Yes, please do.
@solderpunk @kensanata @ckeen If it's anything like our universe when it was new and he found it when it was truly new, it's mostly just hydrogen now.
@c25l @kensanata @ckeen Hopefully it has been discovered before the inflationary phase!
Now that it is so hyped you are all up for a dissapointment, but the secure scuttlebutt folks are really nice.
I am currently trying to understand the system, write a minimal client and then try to get at the federation. It's such a cool idea.
paging @ajroach42, why are all the nice things written in node?
@ckeen @solderpunk @c25l @ajroach42 Another question that keeps bothering me: what about expiring and deleting content? Does that work at all?
@kensanata @solderpunk @c25l @ajroach42 No, you distribute copys all around in a gossiping manner. Nodes may not be online often or rechable via x indirections. Hence deletion is nothing that can be accomplished. What you can do is broadcast a block message, so your friends won't send you content of a certain user anymore.
@kensanata @solderpunk @c25l @ajroach42
You send out copies to everyone that's peering and to their peers maybe. There's no way to enforce deletion. Same as on the fediverse really. Here you can at least try since the servers holding the data are supposed to be up most of the time.
@kensanata @solderpunk @c25l @ajroach42 And since all your actions are a signed append only hash log you could add a request on top that people should forget what you have said, but it is till there in in your feed, forever...
@ckeen @solderpunk @c25l @ajroach42 ouch. Thus if somebody writes something illegal there is no way to effectively retract it either... if you’re sorry you wrote something, you can only say you’re sorry and you didn’t mean it and you want it undone but there’s no way to actually do it... I don’t think that’s the kind of service I want to use. How do you deal with this? Assume that mores will change?
@ckeen @solderpunk @c25l @ajroach42 But this is precisely not how it works in real life. The memories might not disappear, but the insult is not repeated every time we me meet. The newspaper disappears from the stand, the books get impounded, the graffiti is painted over. We design systems to never forget but the human thing is to forgive and forget. That web page where I am called a dick still makes me angry, years later.
@kensanata @solderpunk @c25l @ajroach42 You can still choose not to see it anymore. Granted the mechnisms in place atm are too coarse for my taste too, but even with federation, how do you make sure the toot really is deleted and noone is perpetuating it , transcribing it into other media etc.?
@ckeen @kensanata @solderpunk @ajroach42 But you could do this too with real life. If you've forgiven someone, or they you, how do you ensure that some event or statement isn't still being discussed by third parties or being written about, etc? It's a human problem, not a technological one, it just reproduces itself in everything we touch because it's fundamental to our communication.
@ckeen @solderpunk @c25l @ajroach42 It happens, and it makes people angry, and we can’t stop them, that is true. But it doesn’t follow that the tools we develop prevent us from doing the things that cannot be guaranteed. After all, our locks are not perfect and yet we still use them. The law and norms take care of the rest.
@ckeen @solderpunk @ajroach42 @kensanata this is exactly how it works. our timeline is append only. we make choices on top of that but they are weakly enforceable and implemented through silent understanding at best.
Oh and another thing: Ideally you would connect to your friends only.
I am toying with the idea of running my own 'pub' server (that's ssb lingo for a public relay) and family members then can share their stuff. When they meet or are online stuff is gossiped.
@ckeen I don’t think I’m interested in a medium that is for friends only. The sneaker net is friends-only. But my website, my toots, my nails, my messages, my phone calls, these are all for strangers, too.
@kensanata These are all valid points. I have to think about this more
@ckeen @kensanata why do you connect only to friends nodes? Won't it get federated anyway?
@saxnot @kensanata There's no federation really. It's gossip. You try to connect directly, then if that fails you see what your friend's follow so you give them news about those feeds if you have them, now if you see some of your friend's followers you grab their feed to give to your friend. The level of connections to do this is configurable.
@kensanata @solderpunk @c25l @ajroach42
It is pretty much like in real life. Things you have done cannot be made undone. This you have said cannot be made unsaid.