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UK pol, short rant, sorry 

This UK govt focus on "Britain First" (the idea, not the party) is really getting to me. We now need "strong UK involvement" for everything we do, and "impact for the UK economy" etc.
Perish the thought that your research would benefit some other part of the world, or that you'd be working with non-UK groups.

And it doesn't help that I am constantly reminded of the slogan of the Flemish Neo-nazi party Vlaams Blok: "Eigen volk eerst", "Own people first".

馃槥 馃槶

Web 2 4 16

re: UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@wim_v12e

The essence of tribalism 馃し Peter Turchin has interesting thoughts on these topics: on one hand universal altruism has been been what has driven the most historically successful civilisations (Roman, Mongol, Christianity) and tribalism has what has ultimately driven them to decline. On the other hand, a key element is social cohesion (Turchin uses Arabic word asabiya here) as societies based exclusively on individualism societies never survived long.

There are many ways the social cohesion can build up, but of course historically one of the most successful ones was nationalism - a form of tribalism that however can span across ethic boundaries, and can be acquired by merely sharing the values of specific group rather than exclusively by being born into it. This is precisely how Roman, Mongol, Christian and Soviet societies operated with notable success. Until things changed, and they no longer worked, and other forms of cohesion emerged.

This is precisely why so many leaders instinctively reach back to the nationalist tunes when they feel social cohesion is falling apart, in hope to strengthen it with 鈥渨hat worked in the past鈥. Unfortunately, mechanistically copying old patterns only because they worked in 19th century is a rather dumb way to actually destroy whatever is left of the social cohesion rather than bring it back, which is what I believe we鈥檙e watching not only in UK but also Poland, Russia and other countries that decided to go this route.

re: UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@kravietz @wim_v12e

The Next Decade Could Be Even Worse

A historian believes he has discovered iron laws that predict the rise and fall of societies. He has bad news.
theatlantic.com/magazine/archi

re: UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@Gemlog @kravietz @wim_v12e Well lookie here we got a regular ol' Hari Seldon

re: UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@keithzg
Yes, and actually the cliology bit also reminded me of a book I read a few years ago goodreads.com/book/show/416327

@kravietz @wim_v12e

re: UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@Gemlog @keithzg @wim_v12e

Oh, great - another on on the list to read! 馃憣 And yes, when first reading about Turchin I also had a bit of deja vu from the various historical determinism theories (鈥渓aws of history鈥 sounds like totally Marxian bullshit) but after actually reading his books I鈥檓 much more relaxed about the scientific side of his work.

Turchin doesn鈥檛 aspire to invent any fully deterministic reductionisms and operates largely on stochastic terms, more like climate scenario predictions published by IPCC that describe many possible outcomes with attributed probability ranges, that may change based on both actions of societies in question (e.g. reducing income inequality) and on random factor.

re: UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@kravietz @keithzg @Gemlog

I understand the drivers behind this. I just makes me unhappy, that's all.

That it the same trend is manifesting itself in many other countries only makes it worse.

re: UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@wim_v12e
Yes, I think we see the same everywhere. The usa is simply one of the more extreme examples. The gap between rich and poor, powerful and powerless grows more and more each year.
@kravietz @keithzg

re: UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@Gemlog And both sides divided against each other by political ideology to the point that some states are subverting democracy to push through their own policies.
@wim_v12e @kravietz @keithzg

UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@wim_v12e
馃槶 Indeed

I also keep calling the Flemish racist nationalists by their old name: blok
Because they are indigestible, like a brick in your stomach...

UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@wendy So do I. Pity they changed it and became salonf盲hig

UK pol, short rant, sorry 

@wim_v12e Creepily so...
Brrrr...
Not in my salon....

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