i hate Parler, am glad it's gone, hope it never comes back, and hope everyone who was posting violence on it rots in hell.

BUT....the fact that Amazon could flip a switch and erase a social network shows quite clearly that "the cloud" is not a resilient network hosting provider. what good is ~~horizontal scaling~~ if one guy at one company can say "nah, turn that off" and your app/site/whatever is just gone?

we know that Amazon could likewise take down all Mastodon instances running on AWS, right? the Mastodon software generates a characteristic traffic pattern that can be used to identify all instances running Mastodon, and then *flips switch to off*

federation doesn't mean anything if the vast majority of the servers being federated run on one provider that can turn them off on a whim.

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@walruslifestyle not so long ago the fediverse only had about 3% of its instances hosted by amazon

@CobaltVelvet do you have a sense for the percentage now, or a place where I can find that out?

@walruslifestyle had a page about that and i hear it's going to be back up one of those days

@walruslifestyle In this case, though, everyone dropped Parler. I'm not sure there's some hosting service in Russia or wherever they could go to.

That kind of even drives the point further. There's only three, maybe four companies running the whole thing. If all four agree you're not allowed in, then you're not allowed in.

@JordiGH yes. for sure. my only point was that the kind of resilience people sometimes argue the cloud brings is an illusion if you're confined to one or a handful of cloud providers, especially, as you point out, they can collude against you.

@JordiGH @walruslifestyle There's a lot of web hosters, and most sites using aws and cloudflare would be totally fine on a small VM on some random hoster. Maybe i'm missing something or misinterpreted you?

@walruslifestyle Well, of course they could. When you decide to go for a cloud provider, you give up control over the hardware for convenience and legal guarantees. Which obviously means that you trust in the legal system your contracts with the cloud providers are based on.

That's something one always should keep in mind. So when they would switch it off, you should be able to effort a legal battle with them or make sure it's an acceptable risk/loss for example by having a backup (plan).

@sheogorath @walruslifestyle Of course, if you decidedly host illegal content, then you shouldn't count on the legal system?

Which is also good to keep in mind with Mastodon. Lots of revolutionary content could be classed illegal in various countries, so having a backup plan is always a good idea.

@Stoori @sheogorath @walruslifestyle

there was (is?) that Chinese instance which had the cat pictures and the CoC with "don't start political discourse, only meow" (although there was also political stuff posted there), it was around for a few months then it disappeared from some federation although found it on their probes (I suspect it might even still exist but the Chinese have insisted it remains behind the Great Firewall and operates only within China)

@walruslifestyle this point is true and salient, though there are a number of barriers to everyone hosting their own bare-metal instances. Do you have any suggested alternatives to cloud providers?

@walruslifestyle I think that's why it's important to be clear about how an instance is being ran, comes to mind as an instance that's good with being transperent about policy and hosting iirc

@walruslifestyle we need data hosting co-ops, independent providers run on open source cloud stacks, etc. AWS took advantage of open source and subsidized server costs and businesses are kinda suckers to a cheap cost and strong brand.

@walruslifestyle they didn't just "flip a switch" though. this was a result of months of user reports and warnings being sent to Parler. they also will still have access to their data even after suspension

@walruslifestyle People post violence on Youtube, Mastodon, the WHOLE entire Internet.

@walruslifestyle Well that's exactly it, right? The power for one company, even one individual, to just order something closed up completely and shut off so many people's connections is a big issue.

All the more reason a concept like the fediverse is such a better system.

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