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catdad 💖 @tcql

hi i'm a software engineer and i worked in the web for a good 8 years before i ever realized what the abbreviations i18n and l10n (internationalization and localization) stood for

literally i knew what they were *about*, but thought the numbers had something to do with some funky standards body or some shit

numeronyms of this form are bad so so so so bad don't
just
don't

· Web · 37 · 66

@tcql would you say they aren't very good for a11y

@tcql It's the dumbest thing that "a11y" is totally unaccessible to anyone that hasn't heard it before. Needs to go.

@tcql Thank you!
That always seemed an aberration to me that the word for "making sure everybody is understating my software" and "making sure everybody can use my software" are totally incomprehensible.

@tcql these are my children, Ayeighteenn and L'tenn

@nire @tcql So, are you sayimg that using l10n is bad for i18n 🤔 ?

@Sylvhem @tcql @nire That's actually a good point, never thought about it before.

We've always fancied IBM's g11n, reminds us of of a cold gin and tonic after getting completely twisted out of shape by conflicting implementation patterns of internationalisation and localisation.

And it avoids comments about -z- vs -s- in en-US and en-NZ spellings.

😎

@sophieactual It's probably simpler to just choose a way to spell those words in your project and to roll with it ^^.

@nire @tcql

@Sylvhem @tcql @nire? True.

The brevity does appeal to the assembly programmer in us though.

Never encountered an i18n'd and l10n'd assembler, does such an animal even exist?

@nire @tcql @Sylvhem

*laughs at selves disparigingly*

This is all getting a bit l33tist.

@tcql At least, the W3C has nothing to do with R6RS...

@tcql @pixelpaperyarn oh god yes. And yet somehow a11y is even worse because (a) the abbreviation is really inaccessible so COME ON PEOPLE and (b) it just looks so much like "ally".

@tcql You mean those things aren't very... accessible? *badum tschhh.*

@tcql I don't understand why anyone ever thought they were a good idea.

@djsundog @InspectorCaracal @tcql
1. USB doesn’t get spelled out
2. There aren’t regional spelling differences in Universal Serial Bus

@USBloveDog @InspectorCaracal @tcql
1. then why do the words exist
2. this argument doesn't apply to accessibility which gets the same shitty abbreviation tactic

@djsundog @InspectorCaracal @tcql

1. Those are three shorter words which are all used fairly often in different contexts. Even if usb has no inherent meaning, we’d still use the words universal, serial, and bus
2. I completely agree the a11y is complete BS. The biggest pros of I18n are that it reminds you that strings lengths can vary wildly between languages and that you can’t make assumptions about what is a valid letter.

@USBloveDog @InspectorCaracal @tcql it doesn't remind me of either of those things. it reminds me we habitually overcomplicate our jargon. :)

@USBloveDog @djsundog @tcql ... then why are you defining the word by its length?? I'm even MORE confused by it existing now.

@USBloveDog @tcql I am not saying abbreviating them doesn't make sense, but the specific choice of abbreviation is terrible and illogical from the angle of actual communication.

@tcql @USBloveDog For example, the fansub community has used TL for translator or translation for years, which is shorter and yet also less opaque than t9n.

@tcql also firefox's new thing is being called e10s

I don't even know what it stands for or what it does but I know it adds an "e10s (<cryptic numbers>)" after every page title

@staticsafe @tcql that's an odd name for a software thing. what does it do?

@Felthry @tcql Mozilla's wiki seems to be down but:

web.archive.org/web/2017120123

It's the name of the project for multi-process stuff that is in Firefox now

@staticsafe @Felthry @tcql oh what, I thought you just made that up bc the word happened to fit.

@tcql I hate those! It's like, I'm never conscious of exactly how many letters are in a word, so how am I gonna know what this means.
Even something like loc'n and int'n would be so much better

@tcql That is definitely a barn door that needs closing.

@tcql I d3t k2w, I t3k i2s n1t t1o h2d to r2d. ^_^

@tcql You have got to be kidding me! This is the worst example of 'being clever' i have seen from programmers unixcorn.xyz/media/ruow072tfV_

@tcql n7ms (numeronyms) are all about the a11y (accessibility)

@tcql So something is bad because you didn't have the curiosity or the inclination to ever look up what it meant?

Or is it that the shorter version's meaning is not immediately obvious? Because, by that logic, you must think compression is evil, too.

@josemanuel compression is not meant to be human readable. obscure abbreviations that aren't even obviously recognizable as abbreviations are bad, especially when used in situations like a11y (accessibility), which is especially laughable because it's not accessible at all, and they *are* meant to be seen by humans

this is not a matter of curiosity to look it up, it's intentional obfuscation of something that does not need to obfuscated

@tcql So what you're saying is that, if you worked in internationalisation or localisation, you'd rather write the words in full every time instead of abbreviating them to something everyone in the field would understand or easily look up?

Also, have you noticed that these particular abbreviations make sense for different spellings of the word in English and in several other languages? You can't deny that they're ingenious.

@tcql @synaesthetica wow! that's the only system behind the 10,11,18 etc? Just the number of letters? I knew what they are for a long time, but I never looked into why exactly these weird names were picked.

@ng0 @synaesthetica lol right! that's why i think it's terrible! nobody can intuitively understand what it means