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I fucking hate this vendetta GNOME has against themes...

Ah great, and of course GNOME 40 also breaks the workspace matrix plugin I was using. Funnily enough workspaces are even more broken without it enabled though?!

I don't fucking get it...

lmao somehow on my terminal emulator gnome 40 completely breaks the window border??

Ooh, that seems to be a kitty bug on wayland, which gnome 40 defaulted me back to

@spacekookie oh, see, GNOME is supposed to be easy to use, so advanced, complicated, power-user features like "themes" or "usable workspaces" are not only not a priority, but in fact actively discouraged and shunned.

@spacekookie sounds like kitty's client side decoration support is limited

@spacekookie I'm afraid Gnome hates each deviation from their selected defaults so much that at some point you get a more stable interface when seriously altering KDE plasma using all kinds of window manager scripts /0\

@spacekookie at some point all the UX snobs came to believe customization was bad and they all know better than the users

I blame Google and the opinionated UX culture they inflicted on the world like 10 years ago...

@alexisvl @spacekookie

There is certainly a sociological element to the UX/Design culture. But I also think it's got an economic root. The relationship between gnome users and gnome developers is so broken that it's hard to imagine how information and respect could possibly be transmitted from one to the other.

@doctormo @alexisvl Yea, gnome developers are definitely an in-group that sees the vast majority of users who don't like the things they do as an out group.

I don't really know about the money relationship around gnome. Don't some people get paid to work on it?

@spacekookie @alexisvl They do.

I don't know if you saw my video from last month where I laid out a specific critique against gnome: youtube.com/watch?v=IFGXVN9dZ8

But it's basically that even if you have paid developers. Who is paying matters just as much as what ideas they have or promises they are making.

@doctormo @alexisvl Oh and btw thank you for your work on Inkscape! I've been using it for a few years and it's one of the few graphics tools I would call myself proficient at and I'm constantly blown away by the progress and improvements I've been seeing over the last 1-2 years :) ❤️

@spacekookie @alexisvl

You're very welcome.

🔌 I'm currently looking for people who can help me work on Inkscape via Liberapay/patreon etc. If you're interested. 😅 - My friends said to always post this if someone thanks me for my work 🤣

@doctormo @alexisvl So... what options do you see for us plebs in the community then?
It's not like forking the gnome project is feasible. And I'm kinda sick of people telling me to "just use KDE". I _like_ gnome generally. It's just moving in a bad direction which worries me

@spacekookie @alexisvl

We don't hold many cards. We could unionise. A user's union could raise money outside of the Gnome organisation and put it to developing modifications. Would take a lot of organising, but it'd have more voice than any individual user.

@doctormo @alexisvl I really like the idea of a gnome user's union tbh. It reminds me the concept of "knowledge bridges" introduced by Heather Marsh in her book "Binding Chaos".

It is somewhat inevitable that there will be experts at anything; including gnome development. But we need to make sure that we can continue to connect to these people, and be taken seriously with the feedback, and potentially pool resources to develop alternatives that the community prefers.

@doctormo I'm curious if you'd be up for chatting about this some more on Matrix or something.

Also sorry @alexisvl, I just realised we kept tagging you 😂

@spacekookie @doctormo lol i figured i was getting what i deserved for bitching about software ;)

@spacekookie @alexisvl You can message me, I don't go on matrix much but I'm sure I can be encouraged to join.

@doctormo @alexisvl I didn't see your matrix handle on your profile, that's why I asked :P

@spacekookie @alexisvl

I didn't like the second or third one, and now they want me to join the matrix like some steak loving chump 🤖

@be dude "i'm kinda sick of people telling me to just use..." is not an invitation to list well known options and unhelpfully say they "are things".

@spacekookie please don't theme.

however, you should enable the dark mode from settings. Because even if the theme is dark it does not mean the system understand it as such.

Enabling the dark mode switch themes to their respect dark variant.

That said, I am not sure if GTK 4 would respect this setting.

@dragnucs The default gnome theme is just fucking ugly to me, doesn't matter whether it's bright or dark.

@spacekookie @dragnucs "bright" yeah that's the word, that's not even a light theme, that's a fucking torch, and I like light themes better myself.

Also neither of the themes are good at distinguisting active windows/controls from their inactive parts.

@spacekookie Libadwaita "hard-codes" the Adwaita theme for now, not because of a hatred against themes but because of technical limitations. The Extensions app doesn't use libadwaita yet, so I don't know why your theme isn't applied to this particular app. It should follow your theme if it's properly updated. It might be a theme issue and not a GNOME issue.

You can read a bit about it on blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2021/

@desikn @spacekookie Yeah this. It's less an active vendetta and more that they just don't care about breaking it.

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