seeing some tweets that secure messenger Wire that seem concerning. They may have taken a substantial amount of VC money from a US-based company? And/or made unannounced changes to their privacy policy? I'm still trying to figure out what's going on.

Anyone know more?

Wire seems to have released a statement about this business shift

Not sure how convincing it is for privacy-conscious, non-enterprise users

Following up on the questions about some changes at Wire, here's a summarizing TechCrunch article

I still don't have a confident verdict of whether this is enough to stop using the service...

Follow has removed Wire from their list of recommended secure messengers:

"[W]e have trusted them in the past because Wire had built a trustworthy reputation for themselves. We now feel that Wire has lost this reputation."

Currently their only recommendation for real-time communication is Signal:

h/t @danarel

clarification: Signal is now the only "encrypted instant messenger" option that @privacytools recommends.

However the site lists other options for "Team Chat Platforms," including,, and Keybase.

@schlink @danarel It's amazing how the same story plays out over and over again....inivative, small startup with a strong moral compass meets bling bling big "C" and all previously held beliefs go out the window:(

Can't we learn where the problem comes from? Hint, hint it's not just the tech, go deeper.

@schlink we are working right now to redesign that page and more recommendations should be made shortly.

@andrew_shadura @schlink @matrix it is, currently listed under Team Chat platforms. (Riot specifically), but a new push from GitHub will make this page clearer.

@schlink @privacytools
Back when I first read about the change of ownership or investors I started looking for an alternative. The writing was on the wall and this is the first obvious indication of that. There will be more especially for us non-enterprise users. I don't expect the free accounts to last or for them to release a freely available selfhosted and federated server solution like they have promised.

@schlink @privacytools
I haven't found a suitable replacement yet but have been and continue to be on the hunt for alternatives. Hopefully I find one before my hand is forces by more negative changes.

@kelbot I'm in the same boat! Really wish Cwtch[1] was closer to being ready for prime-time (I'd need it to at least have a working iOS app to sell it to non-tech friends)

fwiw, @privacytools say they're going to be updating their messenger page soon[2]. Curious to see what they go with!


(2) see: and

@schlink @privacytools I saw that but I'm skeptical that they will come up with anything I am not already aware of and is actually a suitable replacement.

@kelbot @schlink @privacytools jumping into this thread late but I want to mention that Signal is _not_ trustworthy and has made financially motivated poor decisions at the expense of their users privacy and security

@sir @schlink @privacytools
Yep. For multiple reasons Signal is not even in the conversation for me.

@ataraxia937 @kelbot @schlink @privacytools unfortunately I don't have any non-technical solutions to offer. I would feel comfortable securing my own messages by rigging together the necessary tools but I don't know of any user-friendly UI which doesn't compromise in major ways

@sir @kelbot @schlink @privacytools In practice, such an answer is a recommendation to continue using the SMS app that comes with my phone. Especially since the one person I actually text with uses iMessage.

@sir @kelbot
Selling point for Signal and even Telegram is that it is very intuitive for not so techy people.

@schlink @privacytools

@null0x0 @kelbot @schlink @privacytools I would prefer that the selling points of private messaging tools be that they keep messages private

@sir @null0x0 @kelbot @schlink @privacytools do you not think that #matrix will get there in ~3 months time? I found this the most user friedly on #android. Entering "rooms" & instances is still not easy.

I am comfortable with Matrix but i see it more as a collaborative platform than a messenger.
Matrix = Slack replacement IMO.
I use jabber/Signal personally on daily basis.
@sir @kelbot @schlink @privacytools

@ajroach42 @privacytools @schlink I like it as well but it is unusable at the moment. Notifications just flat don't work on my current version of android. Last I knew they were aware of the issue but have no fix yet.

@kelbot @schlink @privacytools that sucks! I had notification issues for a few weeks, but I figured it was my mail server's fault, and everything is working again after my last update.

@ajroach42 @privacytools @schlink
I looked back at the thread about the notification issue. They may have found a fix for the issue but haven't done a release in over 4 months. Based on their release cadence it will likely be 6+ months that all users of the most recent version of android will have been left with non working notifications. That will not fly with 99% of users. Doesn't inspire confidence in timely fixes to future problems.

@schlink @kelbot probably Signal (for IRL friends/family) and Keybase (for online friends & acquaintances). They are both still imperfect solutions. Not sure what is so difficult about creating a great instant messenger specifically, when basically every other software category has decent alternatives, but here we are. cc @jonah

@schlink @privacytools it's likely not a coincidence that Signal, Riot and are all open sourced. Though only Riot / Matrix supports federation between instances!

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