This rant about hackerspaces and how they are run hits pretty close to home. https://hackaday.com/2018/04/18/when-hackerspace-directors-burn-out/
@sandzwerg huh, really? All the spaces around here that I've seen don't really have problems with dictatorial boards. Lots of problems, yes. People who want to organise the organisation instead of doing stuff, yes. But the conflict of active members vs the board, no. Maybe because we don't give the board actual power.
@rixx Yeah I was probably too tired yesterday. Not the conflict board vs member but the conflicts itself and the "fresh enthusiastic" people who do stuff.
@sandzwerg @rixx I can find many parallels to existing spaces in that article. Less so the members vs. board conflict though. As common in DACH the board doesn't have a lot of power and (ideally) should only have to do the official chores necessary by the authorities. Everything else is done by members though the 70:30 (80:20?) rule applies. In a healthy space you can motivate mire people to do $stuff by keeping the community together. That alone needs hard work but it's so worth it.
@MacLemon @sandzwerg @rixx I'd say it's a common problem in most voluntary organizations of a certain size. A few people do a lot of the stuff, a few people do at least a little bit, and some are leechers.
@xpac @MacLemon @sandzwerg Nnnno, I disagree, I don't think this is the core problem here. Especially as we don't have the power struggle of board vs members around here.
I think the part that resonated the most with me was the one about people interested in projects vs people interested in the space as an organisation. I call it the Metas. Some people don't have any projects of their own, but they constantly focus on the infrastructure. Those hurt spaces and groups, imo.
@rixx
@xpac @MacLemon
I'm not sure if I agree with your definition of metas. I pretty much from the start didn't had a personal project because I always had to fix community stuff. But I don't think I or everyone who does something for the community fits your meta category as to me it sounds as meta are toxic by default. But I agree that people who only complain about stuff instead of doing something are toxic.
@sandzwerg @xpac @MacLemon It's not about *personal* projects, it's about projects. Sure, building infrastructure for the hackerspace is a project, too! (Although, if all projects in the hackerspace or by a person are only focused on the hackerspace, I'd say that's meta too).
@rixx @sandzwerg @xpac @MacLemon I guess I've never been part of any hackerspace precisely because I've always felt they'd need to change/be more aware of certain topics before I can actually join. Which would definitely put me in the meta category.
I don't know if this is wrong though, it's debatable if people like me shouldn't be "space invaders" that kinda force unpolitical people to think about e.g. consequences of their actions, their openness, anti sexist measures and so on...
@rixx @sandzwerg @xpac @MacLemon Okay. I guess I can't imagine how a project can be "meta about the hackerspace" then, if "hey let's organize an anti-racist event for the space" or "let's create a code of conduct" do not count as meta but as projects *in* the hackerspace... can you name an example of what would be "meta"?
@natanji @sandzwerg @xpac @MacLemon I'll repeat this for the last time, please untag me from this branch of the conversation after that: I think that people who *only* do meta stuff about the hackerspace hurt the space more than they help. Meta stuff is necessary, coops can't work otherwise. But if the meta stuff is discussed&pushed by people who have no other ties to the space except the meta stuff, things go from annoying to hurtful and wrong very quickly.
@natanji @sandzwerg @xpac @MacLemon Huh? I think you and I are talking about completely different things. I'm not against politics in hackerspaces, at all, and I'm very sure I didn't say that. But I think that people who *only* want to do meta stuff about the hackerspace instead of projects in the hackerspace (which ofc includes political projects) hurt the space more than they can help.