@miasmicfungus You think?

Idk, when they are too idolish, that alienate their American fans :-)

They are for sure a fun band to watch going :-)

@kingu_platypus_gidora surely American fans only liked them out of irony? I mean, they're clearly an idol group, right?

@miasmicfungus

Yeah, but the American have issue understanding this concept :-)

The Fb fan page is a fun place, lots of futile drama and misunderstanding :-)

@kingu_platypus_gidora really?! How, in 2021, can people be into Babymetal and not see this? That bewilders me!

@miasmicfungus @kingu_platypus_gidora babymetal kinda drew me back into japanese and idol music a long time ago

I liked metal but I was getting mad with western acts devolving into incomprehensible grunting and screaming instead of melodic lyrical stuff. babymetal had the clean lyrics and enthusiastic instrumentalists I was looking for

one of my friends is still a metalhead but he seemed to genuinely like babymetal because they were different. not as a novelty but just because he thought it was a cool experiment

@proto @kingu_platypus_gidora for the longest time I resisted death growls, but then I sort of slowly transitioned from hardcore into grind, and I just went in all on - but I can appreciate it's definitely not for everyone! I remember the first two Babymetal singles struck me similarly as being something new and unique, but I never really differentiated between what they were doing and say Momoiro Clover Z.

@miasmicfungus @proto

I think what differentiate them from other idolish metal band like Momoro or Passcode or anything is the presence of a solid backing band.

I never was a true Babymetal fan but I do like some of their tracks and, above all, I like watching them become big in the west as AMUSE is confused by the reactions American fans while the American fans themselves aare confused by AMUSE's japanese way of doing things.

It's funny :-)

@kingu_platypus_gidora @proto I think that describes a lot of reaction between Japanese management and Western fanbases, hahha.

@kingu_platypus_gidora @miasmicfungus @proto

I think he is a big player and a pioneer of translating western (in this case, German goth and British Romanthic Goth) to the Japanese culture playfield.

I mean, Gothic is very, very, very specific of Europe. To see it “translated” into japanese culture was quite a job.

@loweel @kingu_platypus_gidora @proto yeah, I can definitely agree with that. Certainly I wouldn't want to disparage visual kei and the impact Mana had, I'm just... I don't know I have like two settings, extreme noise and idol music, and vk is like neither of these things so the subtlety is lost on me, lol.

@miasmicfungus @kingu_platypus_gidora @proto

Well, German gothinc developed from the apocalyptic idea spread by the European Plague, thru the “totentanz” concept, so you need the middle age and the black plague to understand it. The British gothic was a mix of abandoned manors during the industrialization, plus a very romantic attachment to the idea of death, during the eighties.

Japan has nothing like that. Even the sengoku period was a period of chaos, but nothing to do with apocalypse, no incumbent black plague, so hardly you can create the “totentanz” idea, which also require cristianism. Industrialization of Japan was a period of growth, but had no abandoned manors neither a romantic fetish for death, so i think Visuaru Kei can bareli get the estethics, not the meaning. By example, the way Mana Sama was playing organs seems to forget they were only used inside churches, and the “holy music” or “sacred music” needed to be much slower to allow the chorus to sing.

I mean, to me Visuaru Kei is what you can translate to Japanese culture, but I wonder if you can translate more about gothic.

@loweel @kingu_platypus_gidora @proto it's definitely an interesting matter, but I don't know. I can't speak for the German goth scene save for my abiding love of Sopor Aeternus, but as a kid I soon found myself souring on the posturing of the goth. I like a bit of theatre as much as the next girl, but none of it really spoke to me the way the sheer brutality of extreme bands did, so by the time I got my first glimpse of vk, I was sort of nonplussed about frilly shirts and church organs.

@miasmicfungus @kingu_platypus_gidora @proto

yeah… and all of those young people who can’t understand the beauty of the holy inquisition.

@miasmicfungus @kingu_platypus_gidora @proto this was the 2nd inquisizion, aka the spanish inquisition.

Then happened the 3rd inquisition, aka the italian inquisition, or better the conter-reformation against Luther. There were more than one. The first inquisition was more about the books, was run initially by franziscans , and then dominicans took the control. Umberto Eco wrote a nice book about it, “In Nome della Rosa”, which also originated a movie.

@loweel @kingu_platypus_gidora @proto ah, I remember the movie. I've been meaning to read Eco for ages but never have, shame on me.

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@miasmicfungus @kingu_platypus_gidora @proto

The second inquisition, definitively no. In 1492 the king of spain kicked out Spain both “marranos” (the jews) and “moriscos” (the muslims). So many of them did fake conversions in order to stay, so the king was using the inquisition against them too (he was afraid of conspiracies) . Most of the “sephardite” diaspora is born because of this event.

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@kingu_platypus_gidora @miasmicfungus @proto

for sure. But you know, quality of wood in this period was amazing.

@miasmicfungus @kingu_platypus_gidora @proto

No, Ikea is terrible at burning heretics, all what they do is to cook horse meatballs.

@loweel @kingu_platypus_gidora @proto I love Mana's whole look. I don't really care about Malice Mizer or visual kei in general, but Mana's dress sense is flawless, lol.

@proto @kingu_platypus_gidora I think I was maybe really cautious about trying to delineate between the idol stuff I liked and the "serious" music I liked before eventually just giving up, but I still don't know where I stand on Babymetal. There's something about them that just makes me recoil.

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