I always find it disconcerting when people talk about the military or veterans and then add "let's keep politics out of it" . That's forgetting basic history .... Conscription aside how can you divorce the people that are the sharp end of the government's political policy from the actions they participate in?
Any military force is violence
Brett Michaels of Poison seems to think we should leave politics out of it and just blindly praise veterans and active military cuz' jingoistic nonsense
@Zaphodbblx I have known many soldiers and I honor them. Remember for most that the decision to join comes at a very early age - prior to becoming particularly politically aware.
In America, most who join do so out of a combination of lack of options and an instinct to protect their loved ones and those values they've learned as youth. After joining, serious questioning of value/purpose/morality is discouraged and or moot - they serve the state and their use, for good or ill, is a sacrifice.
@Zaphodbblx @jdb Leaving politics out of it, is respecting and honoring Vietnam vets (eg) instead of blaming them for the decisions in DC.
@Patrickme @Zaphodbblx Exactly. The way the left treated those who served in Vietnam is still a major source of the rift between Republicans and Democrats in my parents' generation. Some in my family still regard my socialist leanings in that light, as being swept up in a personal rebuke of their service instead of a challenge to policy and war-mongering.
@jdb @Patrickme absolutely. Like I said being conscripted ( like Vietnam) is a whole different world than voluntary service such as gulf war and beyond. However even for the conscripted there was still a choice to refuse service and be a prisoner of conscience.
@Zaphodbblx @Patrickme I believe, after the indoctrination and developing responsibilities to brothers in arms, that conscientious objecting becomes a very difficult/near impossible choice. Not a whole lot of Gandhi or even von Clausewitz's ideas presented in bootcamp. I also wouldn't want to condemn anyone for a decision to volunteer for duty made as a naive 18 year old.
Sorry if I seem argumentative. It's really not my goal here.
@Zaphodbblx @jdb I think there are some who volunteer at a young age without the benefit of maturity and life experience. There are also those, like in my own family, whose family is committed to military service, lifetime careers, etc. There are differing reasons for enlisting, especially in today's military. And the whole reason for a military is to defend us which includes fighting and dying. Does not jive with conscientious objections.
@Zaphodbblx @jdb I didn't live through that time. Would that war have ended if the extremely high negative public opinion didn't target vets? It was absolutely misplaced, men served whether voluntarily or by draft. I'd like to think we've gotten past this and can appreciate the service of those who would stand in our defense while also, if needed, question the motives of those who would send them into harm's way.