I really don't like the idea of topic-specific instances being the standard way to handle group discussions in Mastodon. I don't want to juggle 15 different identities and 15 different sets of credentials just because I'm interested in 15 different things. Early adopters may put up with that kind of hassle, but a mass audience never will. And having to set up and maintain a whole instance just to host a group means that few groups will ever be formed.
I feel like there has to be a better way.
@boots Sometimes I feel like the last 20 years has been one long death march to reinvent the AOL chat room
@jalefkowit now, joining the group seems silly and unnecessary if you want to just post to it, but there's a simple reason for it!
federation is dumb
basically groups are treated like rss feeds (like users), so you have to "join" (read: follow) them to be able to be subbed to all their posts
@jalefkowit So, that was my reaction for the first few weeks after Mastodon's big burst of attention, and how it was being written about. But I've been thinking a lot about how people interact on line, and how in a sense the alternative is to have exactly one online identity. As I think about how to convince people I know to use Mastodon, I think using a server for a community they're already in is exactly the right technique.
@jalefkowit Of course there are problems, as you point out, but they can be addressed. 1. Clients that support multiple identities nicely. Not too hard. Browser tabs are working okay for me, but not great, indeed. 2. Some hook like public@instance as a way to participate if you don't join the instance. Tag it to show up on their local timeline; subscribe to see their local timeline. 3. white-label instance services like masto.host, so admins just needs $, not tech skills.
on content specific instances and multiple accounts Show more
on content specific instances and multiple accounts Show more
on content specific instances and multiple accounts Show more
on content specific instances and multiple accounts Show more
on content specific instances and multiple accounts Show more
@jalefkowit It's called a groups feature. GNU Social has it, it's fantastic and works across instances just fine. It's basically a relay to pass tagged group messages and responses to all members subscribed to the group.
If Mastodon adopted it, that would be the best thing ever.
@deadsuperhero @jalefkowit I somehow feel bangtags are just a hack due to difficulty in making hashtags to federate.
They are too heavyweight in my pretty (yet) uninformed opinion
@saper @jalefkowit No, those two things service completely different utilities. Hashtags are relative to your instance and contacts, bangtags are a signifier for group relays of posts.
@jalefkowit @saper Generally, bangtags only work if you're already part of a group.
@deadsuperhero @jalefkowit I fully agree that they are not the same and work differently; from what I read is that groups wouldn't be needed if hashtags federated nicely. I think it is a problem of all multicast protocols (how should a sender/relay know you are interested if you didn't subscribe first).
I used to think that, but I've come to disagree with your assessment.
Hashtags are more event-driven are topical, and require no subscription to a group, whereas a group exists specifically to provision the passing of messages to all participants, regardless of the subject of content.
@jalefkowit I would really like conversation tagging outside of content warnings so that I could hide certain tags entirely
@starhaze @jalefkowit Slight variation: make some tags default to "ask" and some default to "hidden". Posts which are "ask" are like CW now. Posts which are hidden are never seen unless you select to show that tag. That would allow things like location check-ins and game-play-status without ever bothering your followers. I think that's the number 1 thing I want in the fediverse. But I'm still thinking about how to make it work. not obvious how to set up the tags.
@jalefkowit Absolutely. Instance and Topic/community of interest are different levels of abstraction. In the same way that NNTP server and newsgroup or SMTP server and mailing list or IRC server and channel are different levels.
@jalefkowit And yes, absolutely, one identity per topic/community of interest is absurd.
@jalefkowit This seems completely obvious to me that there's a hierarchy of Instance, multiple Groups, each with multiple Threads. I don't really understand why this is in question.
@jalefkowit Yes, this is really a bummer. Every user should be able to choose which instances should show up in their feeds.
@jalefkowit @jalefkowit Yes, this is a real bummer. Every single user should be able to choose which instances should show up in their feeds.
@jalefkowit it's up to each person to buy in this concept and split his/her/? identity over multiple topics of interest and instances.
I know the concept and ignore it, because it is free for each of us to be a multiple interested person on a single instance and follow persons of interest on whatever instance they may be located.
The problem I see are the more self isolated instances, blocking or silencing others with larger number of persons on them ...
@jalefkowit @GinnyMcQueen this is a very relevant thread to the flyer you're working on.
Some good thoughts and commentary.
@KemoNine @jalefkowit I mean, not really. Groups are a whole other subject. Our instance isn't subject specific.
I'm already waiting for a better CW/NSFW situation, whitelisting, instance-only posts, and all sorts of other stuff. I'm sure groups are in the list of things being worked on as well.
@jalefkowit Even among early #Mastodon adopters, how many have really given up on #Twitter altogether?
Certainly some who were being hounded there, but still…
And more to the point, how many *topics* exist that you’d want to follow entirely from within the #fediverse? (Modulo html links, of course.)
@jalefkowit yeah, it's in the works
one of these days...
@jalefkowit And because I'm interested in 15 things, I find it hard to discover the 15 instances that discuss my favourite 15 things and therefore find the other people who also talk about my 15 favourite things. Organic discovery on the bird site is easier in some respects
@jalefkowit there is, but it's still pretty bad
gnu social has groups you can invoke via bangtags (as i like to call them)
so if you're interested in biking, you "join" the biking group, and then you just use it's bangtag: !biking
if you "join" the group, it'll appear in your timeline by default