There's a #computerscience club at my school, that I just joined. It seems kind of direction-less at the moment, and discussions get way off topic and stuck in tangents with a bunch of pedantic "well, actually," droning. Worse, the first day I went in the club, the club president made a sexist joke, and it's pretty unfortunate since there's two women in the club (a cis young lady and me).
Any ideas on how to suggest improving the club without being an insufferable SJW in their eyes?
@ikea_femme You could get a lot more women to join and make it harder to marginalize you.
For context, what happened was I went to the first meeting, and the other woman in the group announced she picked out a printer for our shirts, but warned women's shirts cost $6 more, which she said was dumb. The club president took it upon himself to say, "IT'S CAUSE YOU HAVE TITS" and then mansplained how women's clothing is tailored, to a cis woman and a trans woman.
Biggest irony was the subject was "Women in Computer Science History."
I was brave enough to mention Sophie Wilson after I mentioned Grace Hopper.
@ikea_femme not easy position... watch what they do... oh shit... fucking hillness governing us... :(
@ikea_femme stay and watch.... follow... and we will find a trick, cause it's just a trick you know...
@ikea_femme it never ends.
@ikea_femme
:O
If the president felt comfortable saying that in front of women and you didn't notice other men being noticeably uncomfortable, I don't think you can improve it without being an SJW in their eyes. That combined with the mansplaining about clothes YOU WEAR.
Is there a Women in Tech or Women in Computing group on your campus? Many are springing up to try and attract more women into computing and STEM. Way more likely to be useful to you.
@ikea_femme ... yeah, I would cut and run, personally. I like to gauge groups by their leaders, since if you have a problem they're the person you'll contact. :(
If you really want to engage, though, perhaps volunteer your time for a presentation or suggest some discussion topics they might not have thought of? You might be able to steer the group simply by taking on a more active role AND attract additional members who are not men (which might help most).
@ikea_femme that sucks. what's the ostensible purpose of the club? just discussing computer science? do people give talks?
@musclemanhouseguest The purpose is discussion, sometimes somebody leads a topic. Sometimes it has no topic, and it's essentially a study hall.
@ikea_femme idk about you but unstructured discussions are hard for me b/c i hate interrupting people. you could suggest a structure that ensures everyone gets a fair chance to talk/ask questions, if that's an issue.
as far as the sexist shit goes... damn i just read the context. idk if you can get through to that guy. and wtf, the cost of the shirts was likely b/c of the smaller order number, not "tits"... i might have to agree with @Dimmsy , don't go
@ikea_femme @musclemanhouseguest
| sometimes there's no topic, and it's essentially a study hall.
That's absolutely ridiculous for a field as active as CS. Like, you could literally blast out invitations to the maintainers of moderately popular github projects to Skype about whatever language/framework they use and you'd be set for the year.
Anyone who cares about this has something interesting to say. Your president? All he's got to say is "tits"
@edd @ikea_femme @musclemanhouseguest
This seems good advice. As far and "Get out" goes, that could well be good advice to bear in mind forwards. I would be inclined to see whether other potentially friendly people in the existing group have any desire to overhaul or offshoot.
[I don't know much about the specifics of the US school club system, or how socially isolating it is to not be in one, which is why I didn't suggest cutting and running right away]
@Nuzzle @ikea_femme @musclemanhouseguest I can only speak from my experience (small, urban liberal arts college), but there wasn't any cost to dropping a club. It may be different at a really small school, or one that's heavily invested in sports.
@edd @ikea_femme @musclemanhouseguest Very much this.
Heck, I'm nobody, but I wouldn't mind volunteering as tribute.
@edd @musclemanhouseguest
Pretty good idea! I'll propose it, and if they're not on board, I'll move on.
@ikea_femme @musclemanhouseguest Good luck, I hope it goes well!
@ikea_femme What about: get out?
@Dimmsy Maybe I should. I was hoping to get engaged on campus in something other than Trans Support Group. And the queer greek org didn't take me, so comp sci club got me on the rebound.
@ikea_femme Ya gotta know when to cut and run on college orgs! Unless you do want to SJW-up the compsci club and twist it into something dark and righteous. That requires tons of effort, however.
@ikea_femme If you care, you have to say something
A few things might happen
* The joke teller will say, "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to be an asshole"
* They will question your reasons for finding the joke offensive
* They will pretend to be apologetic but still continue with the poor behavior
It all just depends on your level of acceptance of whatever the response is.
Worst case, you might have to run for office :grin:
@ikea_femme Dang, that's pretty gross.
I think it's going to be tough to talk to the leadership about it in that way, but you might be able to find some allies to express the discomfort with and maybe address it more collectively.
Power imbalances are definitely gross.
You might also mention to the club faculty advisor (if there is one) that you would like if they could just be listening for things that may be exclusionary/break the rules of your school re: clubs.
@ikea_femme After lurking some more you can suggest topics you're interested in, help direct existing discussions by clarifying miscommunications (this may require some research), or run for president and run it your way. If people are being rude, you can politely inform them of their breach of etiquette but omit the lecture about patriarchy. Not volunteering gender stats when it isn't directly relevant is also a good way to not act like an SJW.
@ikea_femme I'm sorry to hear that, and props for making yourself heard in the discussion. I have not much advice beyond talking to the other woman there, and find where your ideas of what you want from the club intersect. Then see if you can start organising together (and maybe with other women who are not members but would be were it better) to steer the club (e.g. through pushing for topics for meetings, activities, etc) towards being something relevant and less toxic.
@ikea_femme Sadly, I have no advice on how not to be percieved as insufferable. Some people are never going to want to be told they're acting sexist. But following the Jay Smooth method, make sure to say "that thing they said" was sexist, not that they were "being" sexist. That can help a little. Sometimes. Otherwise, appealing to their better nature can help. "I know you didn't mean it this way, but I was afraid someone might misunderstand and think you meant it that way." Good luck!
@ikea_femme Probably a good idea to start with getting things topical , point out that the discussions are too tangental and then start planning topics. Then once you have had a few meetings have diversity as a topic, have a discussion about why people think there is less diversity in the tech industry and ways that it can be solved.
@ikea_femme Leave. Start your own club. Make that club better.