Felix Neumann 🐧 @fxneumann@octodon.social

Tschüs, Twitter wieder da.

Tach, Twitter down, scheints.

Sorgt das #bcbn18 für den Mastodon-Durchbruch?

@nunatak So, Twitter geht wieder, tschüs!

Twitter ist down! Wie früher!

@benni Klar, da bestehen ähnliche Probleme – deshalb sollte die Lösung nicht die einfache Dezentralität von Servern, sondern die doppelte Dezentralität von Servern und möglichst verlustfrei migrierbaren Profilen sein.

@benni Vereine lösen sich auf, schlafen ein, zerstreiten sich …

@Muto Die technischen Lösungen werden hier diskutiert: https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/177

Nur weil Adreßsysteme wie bei E-Mail und Telefon schlechte technische Kompromisse sind, heißt das nicht, daß man etwas substantiell anderes wie Social-Media-Präsenzen denselben Beschränkungen unterwerfen sollte. Siehe dazu auch hier (ganzer Thread): https://octodon.social/@fxneumann/216597

@Muto Es fehlt eine Verknüpfung zwischen altem und neuem Account, damit gehen die Follower verloren, und damit ist ein Großteil des aufgebauten sozialen Kapitals weg. Sehr kostspielig, so zu wechseln. @stefan

Finally a server with rules that make sense:
"Oulipo.social is a lipogrammatic Mastodon for all" where the letter e is forbidden.

@benni Mehrfache Follownotification? Das eröffnet ja ganz neue Followme-Spam-Strategien! (Hast Du eben eine neue Benachrichtigung von mir bekommen?) @nunatak

@postmodern That's your point I get the least: The current system is even worse, as there is no means of preventing new accounts when old one's are banned.

A persistent identity could much easier accumulate reputation and karma across multiple instances; user-side filtering of low-karma accounts would be much easier.

@postmodern
I agree that most cryptography currently has big usability problems; but I think that could be solved. Especially since the goal is primarily to reach a similar level of security as a simple username/pw combinations.

@postmodern OK, I think that's were we start from different points of view: I see the paradigms of server-centric protocols more as technical compromises we learned to wrap our heads around, while a persistent identity is much more similar to how social interaction in general works.

@postmodern OK, thanks! What's still not clear to me: What's the advantage of the current, instance based ID system compared to a global, Mastodon wide ID system? I don't see the higher barrier.

Regarding some kind of crypto: Granted, that can be lost, stolen, created anew – but that's the same as losing my current instance-specific credentials. Why is this worse, when now all those problems exist too?

@postmodern I don't get your point: having no global ID makes it easier, not more difficult, to troll.
Means to corroborate one's persistent identity are a tool to reduce the impact of trolls with throwaway accounts. Well-established identities are something you can technically filter for – as it is now possible on Twitter to filter out accounts with default profile pics, without verified phone or email addresses.

@postmodern That's where social capital comes in: Technically, it'll always be easy to get a new global ID if you really want – professional trolls will buy cheap burner phones.

But social ties are a layer of checks and balances not so easily to be forged or produced.

@postmodern Yeah, but where's the difference when I have to change instances, be it out of political reasons (I don't like changes in my instance's mod policy), be it economical (charges increase, ads are displayed), be it technical (too slow, updates too late), be it for security reasons (tracking, bad security, data breaches)?

@postmodern Where's the difference to switching instances?

Perma bans, account recovery and preventing impostors would also be aided by global IDs. Also, a global ID increases incentives not to misbehave on one instance as this will be linked to me on other instances as well.

@postmodern On the other hand: When there is no easy, low-transaction-cost system of switching instances only those with high social capital can do so easily.

If Justin Bieber leaves Pinterest for Ello, his fans will follow. If I do the same, I have to put in much more work to maintain my contacts – so some kind of global ID is much more important for my then for much more powerful actors.