> We would need standardization, and flexible standardization at that.

**gestures at Plan 9**

@faho terminals should just not take control sequences. use something like /dev/cons instead.

@grainloom Unless I'm misunderstanding you, that solves a different problem.

In-band signalling is weird, yes, but just having a special device doesn't magically make all terminals behave sensibly.

@faho the difference is that each terminal has (or doesn't have) its own /dev/cons. also they do a whole lot less.
anything involving a 2D grid should be handled by actual raster graphics, not a terminal emulator.
Plan 9's rio also doesn't handle color in terminals.

@grainloom Ah, okay.

Tbh my problems with Rob Pike's software philosophy in particular could fill a series of posts, so this doesn't seem very appealing to me.

Including not handling color, because that's just fricking useful.

@faho color should be handled in a proper widget GUI IMHO.

@faho i wish that were the case, but i have to deal with the bullshit of software that was designed with only xterm in mind way too often. :blobmiou:
(color included. because very often the colors they use suck ass and i can't see anything on my screen. or each application needs a separate terminal color scheme. hence: use an actual GUI.)

@grainloom Okay, sorry, I'm not interested in this particular discussion.

@faho sure, agree to disagree or whatever. just wanted to make it clear there are actually solutions to the problem you brought up.

@grainloom They are *emphatically* not solutions, they are punting the problem.

@faho I guess I should have written "a design that works better".

Final note re: colors.
I had issues with the output of ls on black background xterm and - if I remember correctly - xfce4 terminal with default colors.
If even coreutils - one of the most integral parts of a distro - can't get colors right, I think we need a new approach.
Uncolored text on the other hand has never posed a similar problem to me. Neither have proper GUIs that respected that system's themeing.
GUIs give way more than the very marginal benefits that terminals can provide with escape sequences.
The alternative seems to be that the desktop will keep on losing to Electron.

@faho Anyways, this thread is probably not the right medium for this, so I'll flesh this out on my blog.

Dude, you're right. Now you have the moral obligation to write a new terminal with all that fixed. 😀

P.S.: Please, make easy to configure, like LilyTerm. Okay? Thanks.

@manuelcaeiro Making another terminal makes the problem *worse*, not better.

If you just want to deal with one set of behaviors you can already just code against e.g. VTE and declare everything else unsupported.

What's needed is for all terminals (that people actually use) to behave, so you don't have to do that or deal with the awkwardness of detection.

@faho @manuelcaeiro How about we try PowerShell? MS ported it to Linux after all... ;)

@faho Now write a thing abouthhow terminals are good

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