keep em coming folksx. my handlers are getting a lot of useful information from this

@esvrld leaving a link here just for posterity when this inevitably gets boosted again in however long:

@esvrld this is low-hanging fruit but Maya Murder The Gods And Topple Their Thrones

@esvrld Imo Juggernaut Star in aesthetic, but not character

@jordyd @esvrld nah, im with you, juggernaut star

screaming about spinning the wheel and laughing at God tracks

@bryceyoungquist @esvrld The main reason I say "not in character" is because juggernaut star seems to have gender difficulties which I don't see in esvrld. But maybe I'm overthinking it

@bryceyoungquist @esvrld Also I am currently rereading KSBD and idr if that was ever resolved later so

@jordyd @esvrld yeah that page got edited because that was the common read and that was very not the author's intent

juggernaut is not defensive about briefly being seen as a gorl, they do not even notice this has occurred, and are just very, very tired

@bryceyoungquist @jordyd @esvrld are you talking about the one in the second to last chapter of king of swords? that one hasnt been edited as far as i can tell

@ItsMorgan @bryceyoungquist @jordyd i think it's the one after maya cuts juggy's fake body in wielder of names

@esvrld @ItsMorgan @bryceyoungquist I have no recollection of where anything is so I'm just gonna go with "yeah" to whatever is decided here


@ItsMorgan @esvrld @bryceyoungquist Ok I've looked thru the archives of book 2. This is the vibe I got. The book opens with some misgendering of white chain which sets the tone. On one occasion that I saw, juggernaut star misgenders white chain and on others refers to white chain as "deviant", "weak", etc. These need not be related, but I interpreted them as related. Anyway, after the eventual reveal of juggernaut star's "feminine" form my interpretation then became that all this


@ItsMorgan @esvrld @bryceyoungquist is an outward expression of inner self-hate. Ie, juggernaut star identifies with white chain and, in self-hate, lashes out at her

Anyway, not saying "this is what is there", just "this is how I interpreted it"


@jordyd @ItsMorgan @esvrld @bryceyoungquist Effectively all of the thorns, as with all of the angels, have a bone to pick with how creation has gone completely down the tubes. White Chain displays this right up until winning the fight with Dave. The responses are either to just embrace it and become de facto crooked cops, or join the other Thorns and serve the closest thing to god they even have, Metatron. Their rules have served them effectively no good, but they're practically all they have as far as something like a culture goes, and it's the only way they know to begin to relate to creation itself. If the choice boils down to "maintain a demeaning existence as a relic or at best a mercenary," and "turn into a living metal album cover with something approximating a purpose, just so long as you can keep your empathy at bay," it's not entirely surprising how many of them choose the latter.


@Colophonscrawl @ItsMorgan @esvrld @bryceyoungquist I tend to see the non-thorns as lacking in empathy, and the thorns as awash in it, tho this might merely be a difference in what is meant by "empathy". For example, before his redemption arc in king of swords, vigilant gaze purges the horizon displays a sort of "transphobia of detachment" toward white chain. Unable to empathize with white chain he is unable to understand why he should respect her gender. By contrast, the sort of transphobia


@Colophonscrawl @ItsMorgan @esvrld @bryceyoungquist displayed by juggernaut star (if we're keeping the interpretation of self-hate) is pure empathy ("I feel precisely how you feel and I hate us for it")


@Colophonscrawl @ItsMorgan @esvrld @bryceyoungquist Also when I say "non-thorns" what I really mean is like, the perspective that vigilant gaze had in book 2, rather than "any angel who is not a thorn". For example, I don't mean white chain when I say "non-thorn"


@jordyd @Colophonscrawl @esvrld @bryceyoungquist also probably only applies to root angels as opposed to petals


@jordyd @Colophonscrawl @esvrld @bryceyoungquist so the thorns are the metatron angels. the spiky ones. root knights are like michael (allegedly) and vigilant gaze (formerly?) and white chain (formerly???) and theyre all about the law. the petal knights are the ones that are neither, like 23 liminal blossom punctures the heart of the unrepentant, deliciously


@ItsMorgan @Colophonscrawl @esvrld @bryceyoungquist Oh yes, then what I am looking for is root knights. I will chalk up the many exceptions to the price of generalization

@esvrld that fucked up monk in the name of the rose who speaks "the language of babel"

@esvrld prolly one of the radicals in the imperial inquisition of 40k

@esvrld either Fafhrd or the Grey Mouser's mysterious arcane advisor but I don't remember which one

@esvrld meti-ten-ryo, and huh, I will let you know if someone else comes to mind

@esvrld the wizard in the fourth branch of the mabinogi who cannot live if his feet are not resting in the lap of a virgin

@esvrld @Aleums I was struggling to find a homestuck character but now I'm ready, assigning you equius zahhak

@CobaltVelvet @esvrld @Aleums look the other choice was dirk strider adjacent and none of us wants to go down that road

@esvrld Nanny Ogg

Jesse (The Night We Buried Road Dog, Jack Cady)

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