It's weird: I finished grad school and left the local planning commission last December, which freed up a ton of my time. Somehow, though, it feels like time is more scarce, though I'm generally less stressed out.
Observation: perception of time is affected by structure and rigor.
I can't decide if I'm happier with less stress, less structure, and the perception that time is scarce, or if I prefer deadline pressure, structure, and the sense that there is always juuuust enough time to do the things I need to.
Though I did look up from my newspaper and tea yesterday and think, "I should get another degree."
@SuzanEraslan I need to sit with this for a while, before I can respond. There's a lot to unpack. Thoughts provoked...
@SuzanEraslan For some, and by some I mean "me", the academic setting is a helpful system of incentives to expend effort on the dry bits of a subject, creating a foundation for moving on to the juicier bits. I aspire to autodidacticism, but value the structure of academic formality, not to mention being surrounded by other people doing the similar stuff, with whom to share thoughts and debate. The paper is way less important than the process ... to "some".
@emdeesee @SuzanEraslan Although I think this is true, I also think the majority of students aren't interested in the process, even in grad school. A lot of students are getting terminal Masters or have no plans to move on to phd; they're in it to make themselves more marketable now that a four year degree is a prerequisite for professionals.
@SuzanEraslan @allianora Don't ruin it for me, you two!
@emdeesee @allianora But we're not ruining it-- capitalism is and has for quite some time ruined the entire structure of the ivory tower meant for scholarly pursuit. If we're freed from the yoke of the profit (or just roof over our head and food in our bellies) motive, we would, at last, be able to return to a collective scholarship as a pursuit in and of itself.
@SuzanEraslan @emdeesee Agreed. I'm frustrated because I pay for classes where we are supposed to read and then discuss ideas, but the overwhelming majority of students who are also paying for classes do not do the readings, show up to class because they it's required in order to pass, and then don't say anything because they don't know anything because they didn't read because they don't care. So everyone's time is wasted and the university makes money. yay.
@allianora @SuzanEraslan I'm sorry you have to deal with that; it sounds frustrating. I was lucky: that was not the norm in my program. When it cropped up, prepared students (and the instructor) didn't let that shit slide. It wasn't hostile, but it wasn't accommodating.
@SuzanEraslan @allianora This feels to me like a debate, but I'm not sure why it would be, because we largely agree. The forces that tolerate mediocrity in higher education are present in virtually all educational settings, from high schools conveying diplomas on kids who can't put together a sentence, to "black belt mills" in the martial arts. The fact that these problems exist, though, doesn't mean these structures per se lack value, right?
@emdeesee @SuzanEraslan I think we are in agreement, generally speaking, but I can't help feeling like having the same degree as someone who can't put a sentence together devalues my degree.
@allianora @SuzanEraslan As the de facto editor of several group papers, I know how you feel.
But now we are talking about the degree as a product, rather than a process.
Circling back to the (tongue-in-cheek) remark that sparked this conversation, maybe I should join a book club instead. :slight_smile:
@SuzanEraslan @allianora ...But the dopamine rush from a good grade! 🤔 #gradeweasel
@emdeesee @SuzanEraslan Yeah, if it's solely about the process, I'd spend my money on getting access to research materials and, like you said, join a book club. 😄
@emdeesee Being just over 2/3 of the way through a BS in comp eng has me feeling like anyone pursuing another degree or postgrad degrees is insane or way more driven than me.
Might change once I'm through and working though.
@elderbong I felt that way when I finished my BS.
I had the opportunity to get my master's on someone else's tab, and I took it. I was in a pretty good program and the experience was broadening (especially for an introvert). Debate was encouraged, comfort zones exceeded.
Now I think:
Economics!
Political science!
Public administration!
Creative writing!
@emdeesee That's what I'm thinking, if a company is willing to invest in my postgrad education I'll gladly go for it.
Jim Keller only has a BS in EE from Penn State as far as I know, so maybe I don't even need further education
@elderbong (assert (not (equal 'need 'want)))
@emdeesee Yes. I completed an MA recently and am in the privileged position of having time to decide not only how, but if, I want to use it and find a so-called career. Feeling simultaneously free and massively pressurised! Would love to just do degree after degree after degree...
@ljpg Same. :slight_smile: I'm even in a (non-academic) job I largely enjoy.
@emdeesee There's only "just enough time" after you've finished, though.
@willpate That wasn't quite my experience, though I was budgeting my waking hours down to 15 minute increments. Structure really helped.
@emdeesee degree or debt payment? 😉
@willpate Well, there is that question. My wife, the academic, says don't pursue a PhD unless someone else pays for it.
@willpate I realized that's a misquote. What she says is the much pithier, "Don't pay for a PhD."
@willpate She's the smart one.
@emdeesee Don't get another degree. Just get 5 more certifications and consult the shit out of corps and retire in 4 years. It's the new way, dontchaknow.
@wishx You can't imagine how close this is to my actual life plan.
@emdeesee I guess you do know after all! 😀
@emdeesee I think that our generation's constant feeling that we should go back to school is born from the lack of time for learning, as opposed to doing, that neoliberal capitalism enforces on us. Learning for the sake of it feels like time wasted in being unproductive, so it only matters if we can make it the sole (or predominant) focus of our time in the attainment of a piece of paper that is a synecdoche that distinguishes that learning as having been productive.