I can't wait for that exciting new era where #Pleroma gets coverage by news outlets and everyone says that Lain invented "The Pleroma Network", even though it's just the fediverse.
@deadsuperhero Well... in that sense Mastodon is kind of the "Ubuntu" of the 2000s for federated social networks. "I run Ubuntu" / "I'm on the Mastodon network". It's part of a larger thing, though most people know it by this one specific name, and most users don't necessarily know where the boundaries are. (And like Ubuntu, Mastodon has positively focused on having a good/easy user experience.)
Hard to blame journalists or users though... it frequently takes a deep dive to figure this out.
@zash @pettter @deadsuperhero Apparently I am not paying enough attention to Conversations
@deadsuperhero Also like "I run Ubuntu", I think it's partly a shorthand because there's a ton of verbage and people pick the most prominently visible layer to them.
Ubuntu? GNU? Linux? GNU/Linux? Free software? Wait, free as in free speech? An Open Source operating system? A free software operating system?
Mastodon? ActivityPub? The Fediverse? A federated social network? A decentralized social network?
@deadsuperhero I didn't even mention GNOME vs Unity vs KDE in there ;)
@cwebber Yeah, unfortunately the more specific details almost inherently requires closer examination, and sometimes doesn't exactly roll off the tongue or make things easier to understand for newcomers.
It's easier to say "Open Source Decentralized Social Network" than it is to say "Open Source Client Frontend to the Fediverse"
That being said, I hope to write good resources that properly emphasize said specifics, even if it requires familiarity with the space and platforms.
@cwebber @deadsuperhero I mean, it's kind of part of the... strategy, really? It's much easier to explain one thing to people, than promote 5 different brands of software at once, or the fediverse as an abstract thing. And of those flavours of software, not all are anywhere close to ready for public use.
@gargron @deadsuperhero Note that I'm not passing judgement on anyone or anything here, just trying to lay out the situation in a way that I think makes it understandable :)
@Gargron @cwebber Yeah, I know. I was musing on that the other day when I watched your video.
It was good, but I do think getting the general concept of the fediverse across is probably useful for long-term growth of the network, and probably does go a long way towards building goodwill between the different projects.
After all, we're all going to inevitably federate together at some point.
@deadsuperhero @gargron That works when talking to a FOSS audience... for others... :)
@deadsuperhero @cwebber @Gargron
I think it has to do with peoples need to affix a "Brand" to something.
The Fediverse isn't necessarily a brand, its an idea.
To put it another way, people love the zeitgeist, but prefer it as the Facebook Feed.
@deadsuperhero @cwebber @Gargron
I'd venture to say enough Boomers point to the IE or the Chrome logo when asked "Where is the internet?" that the need for branding still stands.
Younger generations understand what the internet is, but largely through the lens of its largest apps.
making mastodon the official brand of the fediverse is probably going to have a very similar effect as making google the front page of the internet had.
@jeff @deadsuperhero @cwebber @Gargron
A great way to put it!
@jeff @deadsuperhero @gargron @seasharp Sorry but I wouldn't go that far: Mastodon at least is a decentralized network that is run by many entities. Google is a single centralized organization.
@jeff @deadsuperhero @gargron @seasharp That's not to say we shouldn't be advocating people have "fediverse literacy"... absolutely we should.
diversity of implementation is healthy, monocultures suck. i don't like how the mastodon devs push new features on the rest of the network.
@lain @deadsuperhero @cwebber @Gargron
I wish I didn't
I'm pretty sure there's at least one IT Crowd ep for that.
@deadsuperhero @cwebber @Gargron I think Gargron has it very much right on this - the important thing is to break the initial barrier and get people onto the system. Explaining the fediverse can, ultimately, happen later - and actually I think for most people it's easier for people to think of these as some sets of different systems and then tell them they can link them up, than try to get people to conceptualise the whole fediverse in one go.
I get what you're saying, but even so still have the feeling this definition of "the public" excludes me, who was ready for it before Mastodon helped the fediverse find a broad enough user base to hit what seemed to me a self-sustaining, virtuous circle of network effect.
@clacke @deadsuperhero the linux kernel isn't the entire operating system either ;) You don't hear people calling Android "Linux"... most applications say "we support both Android *and* Linux".
But GNU/Linux is a confusing thing that requires more for people to learn
So what I'm saying is... naming things remains one of the hardest problems in computer science :)
@cwebber @clacke @deadsuperhero My solution for this particular case: just avoid saying "Linux" or "GNU/Linux". An OS is an assemblage of lots of valuable software, and I don't see why I need to refer to one piece.
So to me it's "Debian", "Arch", "Ubuntu", & "Fedora"; not "Debian Linux", "Arch Linux", "Ubuntu Linux", & "Fedora Linux".
Also software installation is one of the biggest differentiators between these, so it'd be nice for there more clarity software is packaged for.
@cwebber @clacke @deadsuperhero Furthermore I find choice paralysis between "distros" to be the number one reason people I know who have heard "Linux" not to use it. Or they simply don't want to try something new.
So it makes a big difference if I just recommend elementary OS or whatever they'd like better instead.
@cwebber @deadsuperhero My parents don't know what Ubuntu is but they certainly know about Linux..
