Fedora, OpenSuSE to begin participating in distribute binary black boxes to everyone, to the disaster of everyone, removing themselves from the most positive parts of the system they still provided lwn.net/SubscriberLink/900210/

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Yeah I said it. I mean it.

There's a better path forward. Debian + Nix or Guix is a more positive example of how to provide a more contemporary distribution but also bring the "fast stuff for users and developers" to the table, while still caring about reproducibility, FOSS

@cwebber i'm glad you keep beating this drum. i don't think people are going to listen, tbh, but you're right. we're headed for situation that's just flat-out worse on most fronts, and i think the only way to miss that is if you already believe that distros don't provide anything of worth.

@brennen sometime in the next week I'll spell things out: how we got to such a bad place, how to fix it. If you don't see me posting it, ping me. :)

@cwebber @brennen as someone who kinda likes flatpak but whose opinion is definitely not set in stone (and not an expert either): can't wait to hear it!

@cwebber @brennen hey, just went through your fedi and looked over at dustycloud but haven't found that post. So – ping? But keep enjoying your vacation first!

@brennen @cwebber I'm strongly in the "distros are mostly garbage and get in users way" camp, but I'm curious to hear more. :)

@brion @brennen I have strong opinions, I look forward to you reading and responding to them.

@cwebber @brennen (what got my attention was mentioning nix and guix -- i really like the idea of a base distro with stuff layered on top of it, and there's ways to do that that might be more advantageous, or at least more transparent, than the flatpak world)

@brion @brennen If you aren't running Guix as a userspace package manager, give it a try!

And to see how easy it makes local dev, try using "guix shell" and then getting the following's tests to run: gitlab.com/spritely/guile-gobl

@cwebber @brion i've messed with it a bit, and i won't advance super strong opinions (just not enough experience at this point), but it at least feels like a structural path forward for the distro model.

@cwebber
Running Nix OS with Nix here since a while.

Even with regularly cleaning up, the nix store is taking up a quarter of the HDD of this laptop :-S

Nevertheless I avoid this Flatpak and Snapcraft stuff if I can.

@RyunoKi I mean, do you think flatpak will take up less space than nix/guix? :)

@cwebber
That was this strategy with shipping everything packaged up?
(Instead of sharing libraries)

Nah, unlikely.

I'd save some space, if for example TeX would be more fine grained instead of some schemas that don't list what they contain.

@RyunoKi Oh yeah. The giant texlive bundle is the easy path out in Guix also, but thankfully it's less and less necessary, more of that world is availble as individual packages.

@w96k
In that moment I'd need the Internet to look up the command in question because this nix CLIs resemble nore the days of apt-* than a great DX 😅
So many similar sounding commands that do apparently similar things.

Gentoo might allow to go back in time…

The limiting factor for me is really disk space at the moment. I'm too dumb to dare to touch the hardware of my laptop (think of me as „softie“ if you like).

@w96k
I mean, I took it for a ride to learn more about it.

I think I will stick around for the next release and decide then whether to continue using it or try Guix for a year.

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