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There's been a LOT going on but nonetheless, 8 seconds before midnight, we technically did manage to get an episode of @fossandcrafts out this Thursday fossandcrafts.org/episodes/11-

It's about an ethical framework I've been workshopping for quite a while, one centered around increasing agency of everyone as an ethical good and and the inverse, subjection, as an ethical wrong (where a clear and strong case of subjection is slavery, and obviously there are many lesser forms from there).

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@cwebber @fossandcrafts Thank you, I really enjoyed this episode, and you did an excellent job articulating a number of important perspectives.

I've been nose-deep in philosophy texts for the past number of months, and much of that reason was because of past conversations that we've had. We'll have to have another call sometime; our philosophy and goals are very compatible, but you're much further along in exploring it in a more formal way.

@cwebber @fossandcrafts

Re: "user freedom", I changed my tagline on my website back in March to "Activist for User Freedom". I don't recall where I first heard it, but I certainly think of you when I hear/see it. It fits so well with how my perspective has evolved beyond just the four freedoms over the years.

@cwebber @fossandcrafts
And that is really the root of my quest, which you mentioned in this episode: I seek to continue to refine a personal philosophy and code of ethics that _derives_ the four freedoms as corollaries. Because when we focus on software freedoms in a deontological sense, and end there, we miss out on so much (this perspective is contrary to my LP2018 ethics talk; I've thought about it a lot since then). To me, the four freedoms are the top of an iceberg.

Thank you again.

Thank YOU @mikegerwitz! Everything you said means a lot to me. I really was nervous about posting the episode because, as said there, it's an important issue for me... and also nervousness about how it would be received. It makes me really happy that you've found it to be an interesting framework.

And yes I'd love to do another phone call!

@fossandcrafts

@cwebber @mikegerwitz @fossandcrafts Sorry, maybe an off-topic question, but as a foss lover I have such a misunderstanding of how foss can exist and be maintained in a capitalist system in which there is very fierce competition between corporations?

@Gamercat @fossandcrafts @mikegerwitz I think that we're seeing a lot being developed and maintained today despite most of us living under capitalism, and plenty of people/volunteers operating out of motivation models that aren't profit-oriented :)

That said I think we could do better to create consensual economic systems (and that's part of the motivation for Hyptis appearing in Spritely)

@cwebber @fossandcrafts @mikegerwitz And another question like that, will foss technologies ever appear?Gradually slowly but open source technologies appear.

@Gamercat @fossandcrafts @cwebber You may need to be more specific about what you mean by "technologies".

Do they not exist today?

@mikegerwitz @fossandcrafts @cwebber Now I will explain there is FOSS - Free and Open-Source Software, and I mean, will FOST - Free Open Source Techologi appear? For example, there are open source phones, can there be such technical progress that they appear as fost phones?

@wehlutyk @Gamercat @mikegerwitz @cwebber Not familiar but we'll try to find some time to watch it! (Busy week though...!)

@fossandcrafts @Gamercat @mikegerwitz @cwebber sweet! I pair that with Bunnie's CCC talk on open hardware: media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10690-open . The framing is around hardware security, but he explores lots of relevant rabbit holes about hardware

@Gamercat @fossandcrafts @cwebber A number of people have tried to reconcile this over the years. I'm not a good person to speak on the topic, and I'm a bit cynical about it.

I think there are good-faith efforts (e.g. selling support for free software), some that are arguable (selling license exemptions), and some that work against our cause (e.g. "open core" and the whole "Open Source (Almost) Everything" model by Preston-Werner many of us cite as a horrid example).

@Gamercat @fossandcrafts @cwebber But the reality is that many corporations use free software in a self-serving way. It doesn't have to be that way. But this recent announcement from the Conservency does a good job to illustrate some of the problems we face:

sfconservancy.org/news/2020/oc

@cwebber @fossandcrafts I've understatement my enjoyment of it ;) It took place of my nightly philosophy reading.

If anything, it was a tease, and I really hope you discuss it more in the future.

But yes---I don't want to take up much of your time, but I'll get in touch privately in the coming weeks. I'd love to query you on certain things, and raise some challenging issues that can bring about cognitive dissonance without a clear underlying theory.

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