A lot of people find out that the W3C's governance is fucked up and overly dependent on corporate sponsorship (and it is) and then assume that the WHATWG must be a better institution (it isn't).

WHATWG is, for the most part, a "what-the-major-browser-vendors-say/do-rules" org. And keep in mind, that's now just two organizations (Google and Mozilla). That's good reason for pause.

@cwebber is there something we can do to improve W3c?


@maloki I don't know, though to better understand the problem I recommend reading manu.sporny.org/2016/rebalanci

The problem with this kind of corporate sponsorship is it can allow for compromised positions that never would have been taken otherwise, like dustycloud.org/blog/drm-will-u

@maloki I've long been interested in a hacker/community-oriented standards org. IETF is the closest we have, but isn't quite that. Though one thing the W3C does have is its patent non-aggression policy, and the reason that works is that it's able to bring a bunch of corporate participants to the table. I don't think a hacker standards org could do that. (There's also some government groups that will only accept work that come from "official" standards groups.)

Maybe it's still worth trying.

@cwebber Hmm... Yeah I'm not sure either or.

I just know I want to be part in building the Ethical Web.

@maloki Anyway, in order for such an org to work, it would have to have a plan for funding and governance from day 0 that informs the desired structure. I don't know what that would be. It wouldn't be easy to set up, I think.

@maloki Also a lot of the staff at standards orgs are paid to do what is, quite frankly, boring but necessary stuff. And we probably *would* have to pay people to do that.

Something with transparency built in at core level, e.g. similar to idea behind (or even using) Open Collective..



@cwebber @maloki

Who are the candidates in your minds for an organizational center for a new standards org?

You're thinking hacker community. I'm more thinking P2P economics, which overlaps but is not the same. I tried to get the P2P Foundation to set something up, but they don't think they have the spoons.

Could be a new organization, but that's a lot of work, and could lack credibility.

@bhaugen @maloki I actually have no candidates. And I'm not volunteering, either. :)

Which is why I'd like it to happen, but am not optimistic it shall.

@cwebber @maloki

I know citizen groups that have developed some of their own standards:
* http://openhardware.science/
* http://transformap.co/

And also corporate groups:
* https://www.aiag.org/
* https://schema.org/
* a few blockchain orgs

Not recommending any of those as "the new standards org we need", but it is doable.

P.S. I am not personally interested in the corporate groups, but they do get organized...

@cwebber @maloki

Might be an idea we're interested to promote in future. Just started a reorg at HTC around "Pyramids of Humane Technology". One pyramid is Technology Alignment - alignment to humans; tech serving us, not vice-versa. The approach is optimistic, solution-oriented, not the usual doom & gloom.

Some of my notes: github.com/humanetech-communit

I see "Humane Design human-centered design, UX best-practices, 'designed for humans'".

Have y'all considered http://designjusticenetwork.org/network-principles/ ?

@maloki @cwebber

@bhaugen thank you for sharing. It's interesting stuff on there.

@bhaugen @cwebber @maloki This is why I want to federate ActivityPub and ActivityStreams extensions. So each community can act as their own standards authority, and distribute power amongst the Fediverse while still requiring the "everyone needs to get along" part.

@cj @maloki @cwebber

> federate ActivityPub and ActivityStreams extensions.

I like the general idea. Might also be good for the problems with the standard itself that are being discussed, to agree on some solutions, extend the standard, make it more of a living thing, now that we got lots of people using it and even lots of implementations.
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