Looking at world news as well as some of the troubles the current fediverse is hitting... I'm really starting to feel like I don't have a choice but to throw myself into building a censorship resistant, safer-against-abuse version of the fediverse full time. I know how to do it, and I could potentially coast for a while doing it. But I'm very worried about not being able to get a good enough income to sustain the work. But it feels so urgent.

I'm not sure what to do. :\

>censorship resistant, safer-against-abuse

pretty sure you only get to pick one of these.

@fradleybox Depends on the kind of abuse. I know how to reduce spam and dogpiling problems for instance.

@cwebber okay, I'll bite. how do you curtail spam and/or dogpiling without censoring the messages or users constituting/perpetuating those behaviors?

@fradleybox I have this drawn up on paper and I've meant to write it up. I guess I should type it up this week... I was in the process of doing so last week but I lost steam. We'll call it the OcapPub approach to ActivityPub for now.

@fradleybox I have the workflows drawn up as Granovetter Diagrams right now but that's a visual social-graph-introduction language that not many people are familiar with. It will take time to distill it into user stories people can understand.

@cwebber seriously now you're just making up words, you lost me at "on paper"

@cwebber @fradleybox If it's building on AP, I might me able to implement it in the AP server I'm working on.
At the very least, I'm very interested in reading what you have so far.

Document it, convince people that if you build it it will be used, and set up a patreon/etc.
There are censorship-resistent networks already though, the question is why people don't already use them?

@cathal @cwebber same reason why not many people used GNU Social before Mastodon showed up. Usability and network effect.

I would throw some cash at this problem, too.

Also, being able to run Mastodon/Pleroma/whatever on an Tor Hidden Service and still be able to communicate with the rest of Fediverse would be a boon.

@rysiek @cwebber Amen to that. There's a marketing side to this too, though. It's self-evident by now that generally, people don't care about their rights. They only care about ease, comfort, and self-narratives. People didn't come to Mastodon because it was free, or liberating. They came because it was easy and it was comfortable (less abuse than Twitter), and they could weave a feel-good story about their participation. Harnessing this dynamic is crucial.

@rysiek @cathal @cwebber Money. Money, money, money. Then... money. When that is added? Money.

Seeing how often the tin cup is passed around these parts, it can’t be overstated how asymmetric this fight is. Them upstairs can buy whoever for whatever, whenever. I doubt most people will ever hear of Mastodon, never mind the others. FB and Birdsite come preloaded on phones.

This is a guerrilla effort now.

@Shufei @cathal @cwebber but we're punching way above our weight. that brings hope.

@cwebber surely this would be something P2P?

There's quite a lot of projects already... Scuttlebutt, DAT, Briar etc.

@cwebber Just brought that up as they all need SO much help.

Please, don't let the idea be forgotten - share it with us and eventually you may find supporters and contributors.

I feel much the same with a different emphasis. I threw myself into something similar - albeit more focused upon publishing - over a year ago. My income is so consistently low I can give very little to such work. Even as the necessity of such work has become more evident to me, I have consistently doubted that there is a sustainable demographic of people able to appreciate its value & both willing and able to pay for it.

It could change. But when? We have by now gone crossed so many red lines.

Know that a lot of people are with you on this. I'm working on some aspects of it, if you want to find a time to chat.

Set up a donation page, but I'd understand if you decide it's a crazy thing to do.

I'd love it if you did, personally. Freedom is for those crazy enough to fight forit.

@rick_777 I do have such a page but I haven't been very good at promoting it

Thanks for the encouraging words!

@cwebber Well, build it and they will come, sayeth the fell voices... And if they don’t... Call it a mitzvah.


do what you need to do, first and always

fixing the world isn't on you. You've already given a lot, and with any luck you'll be able to keep helping along the way.

"In the event of a loss of cabin pressure ..."

@cwebber Dinosaur from the SSB team just find to way to hire two people to work fulltime on some SSB-related projects for the next few month.

If your vision kind of align with theirs, you could get in touch with them. Actually you seem in a similar position than he is, it may be interesting for you to contact him anyways, I'm sure you could share some insights here.

"rusty sunrise choir" announcement: %zv56AbEcR1+XKcOF3E7J+HNoKrxsd+0MQ/eVPQanfb8=.sha256 (on scuttlebutt of course)

(sorry for the notification spam, I had some trouble responding to the right toot :) )

@Ninjatrappeur @cwebber

P.S. Christopher: they also want to improve their canonicalization method which I know was one of your blockers upon first encounter, and you said you had ideas...

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