@cwebber You're right. Blockchain won't solve *all* problems. We need a better mechanism.

Introducing the blockchainchain - a chain of blockchains for the ULTIMATE CRYPTO SOLUTION for EVERYTHING™

@phoe @cwebber
>chain of blockchains

you mean Plasma?

It's a thing on top of Ethereum for making blockchain within blockchain within blockchain.

It accelerates the blockchain function.
In other words, it gives us more time at each level.
A week at first level down, six months at the second level down, third level is... ten years.

@Wolf480pl @cwebber

we need to go dee- I mean, sorry

we need more GPUs

@phoe @cwebber
Srsly tho:

It makes it so that the inner blockchain requires no mining whatsoever, you only submit the block to the smart contract on the parent chain, which is a simple operation with a low transaction fee.

If someone things the block is wrong, they can make an appeal at the parent contract, which will then verify everything, and there will be big tx fees. But only if someone appeals.

So you can have 100s of cheap txns on subchain as long as everyone involved agrees.

@phoe @cwebber

And then you say
"we need to go cheaper"
and nest it one more level.

@Wolf480pl @phoe @cwebber

Blockchain, but where you "mine" by forking.

tired: proof of work
wired: proof of fork

@rysiek @Wolf480pl @cwebber you mean bitcoin cash?

@phoe @cwebber

It's pretty clever and mitigates some important problems with blockchain, but it's still just a slightly better hammer, in a world where there are very few nails.

@cwebber David Gerard is v. good on blockchain/bitcoin etc but I don't know if he's in the fediverse

@telent Not AFAIK, though he's on G+ and Reddit's /r/buttcoin

@cwebber

@telent Via email: "please let them know I waved hi but have enough social network timesucks at present ;-)"

Resistance is futile!

(Resistance is V/I!)

(V/I is futile!)

@cwebber

BTW I had a big revelation at the last Rebooting Web of Trust when I was talking to someone about the decentralized tech stuff I work on and they said "I'm very excited about blockchain and how much it can change humanity" and it took a bit in the conversation to realize that they thought *all* distributed networked technology was "blockchain" technology.

Oops.

Anyway, my suspicion is that for people not working on this stuff (and maybe even for starry-eyed brand-new people to this space) that misconception is common

@cwebber Similar to military people using "cyber" to refer to anything that has a computer involved. Or "the cloud"

@cwebber I seem to remember predicting this very thing over dosas w/you this spring..

@joeyh Yep...!

@cwebber I get a bit of that too (especially with decentralised web in one job title). On the other hand, some things are close enough to blockchains to allow it - eg git.

@KevinMarks Arguably git is a non-consensus blockchain. Again, blockchain is very loosely defined, and hence my post here: https://octodon.social/@cwebber/100622592068943907

Blockchains are both massively over-hyped and also massively ridiculed incorrectly. But a lot of that is due to vagueness.

But it's the "get rich off of blockchains" hype that's making that whole space unbearable right now.

@cwebber @KevinMarks That inspecificity is why I prefer to say words like "distributed hash table". I'd been looking for a word to the describe "(non-)consensus" lever for a while. I'd wanted it to describe the difference between SSB and other DHT stuff. I hadn't even realized that git is more or less the same mechanism (with different opinions about the importance and method of dealing with differences). Thanks!

@benhamill @cwebber If your keyspace is too small, call these chaps:

@cwebber
@KevinMarks
Blockchain and subsequent tech is a cult rn

@valeg @cwebber @KevinMarks The question with blockchain is: What will be left once all of the hype and fud subsides..

@cwebber This is extremely common. Most enthusiasm for, and envisioned applications of "blockchain" relate to simple non-consensus (usually even asynchronous) distributed databases with some usable PKI for access control. Git + ssh + cron.

We just fell so far down the centralized services hole that there are generations of users for whom any such system is science fiction amazing, must unfortunately require burning countries full of electricity to collide hashes for. "But worth it!"

@cwebber when I counter this with "you know SMTP email is distributed, right?" I tend to get nothing but blank stares....

@cwebber

Aye. I define “blockchaining” as applying popular new tech to the problem at hand, regardless of applicability. 😀

@kevinmarks I didn't say that *everyone* embracing blockchains is a great mind :)

@kevinmarks But I do think blockchains are frequently sucking the air out of the room and are distracting from a lot of other decentralized tech opportunities.

You only need a blockchain in one case of decentralized/distributed systems: where the ordering of events is *critical* to the functioning system.

@cwebber @kevinmarks this is effectively the "Bitcoin not Blockchain"/Bitcoin maximalist argument. Blockchain only makes sense when it is specifically designed with the right incentives in place, where security and ordering is extremely important, such as money.

who indebted and desperate and hollow-eyed and caffeineated sat up coding
in the supernatural darkness of studio apartments floating
across the tops of cities contemplating riches,

who bared their brains to Heaven under the coffee shop window and saw
VC angels staggering on tenement roofs
illuminated,

who drop out of universities with radiant cool eyes
hallucinating proof of work and crypto cure-alls handed down from the
hackers of yore,

@cwebber cock and endless balls

@pierut yeah I didn't get to that line, but what a line

not sure how I would have converted that one

@cwebber

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by post-modernism,
starving, hysterical, bearded,
dragging themselves through the Hackney streets at dawn
looking for just one more tune.
Angelheaded hipsters,
burning for the ancient heavenly connection
to the blacked-out sub in the machinery of the night.

My god; It's full of stars.

@wasamasa @cwebber Decentralised system being central to your platform, you sure put him on the spot!