Fucking pissed at white dudes in free software prioritizing exercising their free speech by showing "look, I can make jokes which affect people not like me" and then being like "free software is a movement for everyone"

Nobody has ever questioned whether *I* belong. But I've tried to bring in plenty of other people who left because they didn't feel welcome.

I believe in free software, I want it to be a movement for everyone. Most of these people would say "I do too".


Do you have a *right* to say whatever you want? Legally it's an important right. But should you? What you *should* do is something else entirely.

You can use that free speech in all sorts of ways. How did you choose to use it?

And are you really, really, actually an "equal opportunity offender"?

If you claim everyone should have thick skin you'd better not be blowing up at Sarah Jeong for making a few jokes about white people and then turn around and say racist or ableist or whatever shit

Huh... I think aside from ActivityPub reaching Recommendation status this is the most favorited thing I've ever posted on here... unexpected, but I guess that's a good sign and gives me some hope that people here generally get it

@cwebber People can claim to have good intentions, but actions always speak louder.

@cwebber I dig what you are saying, but those you are saying it to are doing it for shits and giggles, having perused /pol/ before, they aren’t gonna open their ears to you, so be your fantastic self and ignore those making obtuse remarks

@Wrongg Well I haven't shared the context, but these aren't even alt-right /pol/ type folks. They're old guard free software folks (many of whom even consider themselves to be on the left in other circumstances) on a private mailing list who can't see beyond their own life experiences, can't understand how their words affect people... can't understand how they're *failing to build the social movement we need*.

@cwebber my mistake, hopefully there can be some change ☺️ the question is, how do we build the social movement we need? How do we escape the socialist libertarian mish mash that has been fallen into? How do we be like frank? Https://

Maybe write about this problem in the mailing list where it is happening? I understand the need to vent, and this looks like an interesting thread, but for those people to change I think you must engage them directly 😉

@nobru I did engage them directly on the mailing list. This was a public vent, but I tried hard to speak convincingly there.

@cwebber dudes are kind of the worst wherever you go tbh, and they have a unique ability to push everyone out and then complain that they're persecuted when no one wants to join them lol.

@cwebber Fact: "Free speech" defenders often keep me away from contributing to or recommending certain free software programs. I don't and can't assume that others have the energy to fight off racism, sexism, etc. every time they need help doing something on their computer.

@cwebber After reading Zenyep Tufekci, dana boyd, and watching the German anti-nazi laws, I have doubts that humans are responsible enough for unrestricted free speech.

I'm wondering if there's a practical way to limit speech if someone keeps repeating a something that has been repeatedly disproven.

Examples: The earth is flat, anything involving crisis actors, stereotypes based on race or sex.


i hear your frustrations there.

many times people make "jokes" without considering who is around them.

i have had people make "drunk indian" jokes immediately in my presence many times.

"gee, thanks for the vote of confidence!"


As a subset of 'not like them' that's new to the community, I thank you for using your position of privilege to push back

@cwebber You know what they say: As values change, young progressives gradually turn into old conservatives.

@thor @cwebber Stats bare out that is truer for men than for women. But still overall the case.

@cwebber Honestly, we need more FOSS people standing up for this. And I believe that's why we appreciate it, and you for saying it.

It's incredibly easy to be complicit when the wind is blowing your way anyways, if that makes sense?

@cwebber It pisses me off honestly. It seems like a theme in my life at the moment. I get so angry when people I normally respect say racist, antisemitic, homophobic and sexist stuff.

@cwebber some would say treating people who aren't "like you" like they're special snowflakes is more effective at setting them apart as an "other"

the premise here is that only white males haves a problem with CoCs

on my tl there are trans people and women criticizing linux kernel dev for adopting a CoC so i don't think the disagreement is along that particular line
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