Pretty sure there's some kid out there thinking that folks who use websites are old, and I'm here to tell you that you're not even allowed to say "I am ancient on the internet" unless you have used telnet before the invention of SSH.

Double points if your internet access was via a shell account using Pine.

@craigmaloney How many points do I get if the dialup dumped you straight into Lynx and had to use Kermit to transfer files?

@craigmaloney @nivex At first I was like, "Yes! So *many* points!", and then I realized what that meant in this case. 👴 I don't think I ever used Kermit on the internet, but I occasionally used it downloading from BBSs.


<taps forehead to point out massive brain> Can't tcpdump serial links.

Also, elm > pine. :flan_hacker:

@mwlucas That's what the RS232 tester is for. 😁

And elm was decent, but I was trying to date myself. 😉 I use mutt now.

@mwlucas @craigmaloney no, but you can mirror all the ports on the Xyplex with "set slip on" if they misconfigured it. Theoretically. 😇

@craigmaloney I’ll use mutt when I can connect to outlook 360. So I have to use thunderbird with owl plugin. Which works great.

@Nixfreak @craigmaloney
I use mutt with outlook 365 for work. I'm using DavMail for connectivity. It works ... well enough. It's better than putting up with Thunderbird or whatever.

@elb @craigmaloney yeah I looked at davmail before it’s a service right? So you don’t have to buy owl plug-in for thunderbird?

@Nixfreak Yes, I run DavMail on my machine, which connects to the Outlook 365 server via the Exchange protocol (and proxies auth for SSO, etc.), then I use mutt to connect to DavMail on localhost. I use it for receiving (but not sending) mail, and for fetching caldav calendars from the server.

@Nixfreak Yes. It might have been the first open mail client to do so, for all I know -- certainly it has for as long as I remember.

My employer issues S/MIME certs, so I am currently using S/MIME for the account w/ davmail. I've been PGP-signing emails for probably 20+ years, though.

@Nixfreak @craigmaloney Alpine is a modern descendant of Pine, and it's still my favorite email client.

@tfb @craigmaloney

Support outlook 360 ? Or do you need davmail for that also.

@craigmaloney how much x10 points for getting access via edu site in another country ☠️ Not merely shell access with Pine, I used Gopher. I did searches with Veronica. When I first used the web it was via a text console browser and the menu the ISP first showed when you signed in listed it as, "World Wide Web, experimental, similar to Gopher".

Oh, and the ISP I had was the one the Green Card Lottery spammers used (or did until roughly 12 hours later when the admins kicked them off and sent an apology email to everyone else for not kicking them faster)


What is this newfangled "Pine" thing? I had to use Elm. And I liked it. Because I couldn't be bothered to learn anything else while Elm still worked.

@suetanvil @craigmaloney You're only allowed to complain about Pine being too new if you used elm before 1989, to be clear.

Until 1992, my internet email was through BBS gateways, so Pine was around by the time I had live-on-the-internet email.

@tfb @craigmaloney

I got my first Unix account in either 1990 or 1991 and elm was the default that they taught us in the 'into to Unix' tutorial. They went with Pine the following year or so because (IIRC) elm was abandoned and insufficiently free for letting others take over its maintenance.

I kept using it out of inertia and it worked fine during most of my university career. By the time I had to switch, mutt had become a thing and the switch was mostly painless.

I still use mutt today, TBH.

@craigmaloney @tfb 1. Boot up my Amiga 2000
2. Dial into the campus mainframe
3. Pine, Lynx, and I forget what NNTP client for great justice

@craigmaloney Telnet? Whippersnappers!
ATH0 ATDT 8675309
<beee wwooooo qwwwaaaaaa>

@mdhughes ATDT?


Also ran my own BBS on an Atari 8bit machine (Oasis and then BBS Express Pro)


@craigmaloney My first modem was the Atari acoustic coupler & 850 box, but I moved to a Hayes-compatible ASAP.

Both my BBS were on ST, The Dungeon (Starnet on floppy) & then The Caves of Steel (Fnordadel on HDD, MiNT Unix-like).

@craigmaloney Woohoo! I missed this one by a year. Guess Iʼm just garden-variety old on the internet.

@craigmaloney still mad there isn't a terminal program out there with sz built in tbh. I want to type rz at the far end of a few ssh hops and send something over all the time.

@craigmaloney >1995

damn, that’s earlier than I thought

think the first time I used telnet would’ve been 1997 or 1998, so I am not ancient on the internet :(

TERMINATE.EXE so I could call a BBS from which I could telnet to a Slackware server and... yeah, pine was one of the programs I used.

@craigmaloney Is there a bonus for remembering how, once ssh did appear, you dreaded losing your connection to a Sun IPC because it was going to take so long to open it back up?

@craigmaloney Why do I need this world wide web thing? I've got Gopher.

@CarlCravens @craigmaloney TikTok has given me various stages of various duet threads on that cat but that's the first best-of compilation I've seen.

@gamehawk @craigmaloney That's the bit I find interesting... the TikTok duets must create a lot of garbage, but then someone finds the gems and edits them together outside of TikTok. It's a weird mix of collaboration and selective editing, where none of the participants coordinated anything.

@craigmaloney I've never used telnet!

It's an exciting story. I almost used it to connect to a RPi, but then I didn't.

@craigmaloney You could write a version of the 4 Yorkshiremen sketch based on this thread, but you'd need to get it performed by the younguns that think Vine is old school.

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