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I think I'm done with D20-based games. I don't find the system particularly engaging anymore, and I find the more interesting things are happening outside of that space.

The last d20-based system I've looked at is 13th Age, which I consider the pinnacle of what can be done with d20 systems. Despite that, I have no desire to run it.

(Note: this is not a plea for shilling your favorite d20 system or author. I've done more exploring than this toot lets on and frankly I'm done with the system)

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I also have Monsters and Magic by Sarah Newton, which is pretty awesome in that it's d20 without using d20.

mindjammerpress.com/monstersan

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@craigmaloney Same boat. Up for other base systems that have robust non-Combat rules.

@craigmaloney I kept bashing against the edges of WotC's D20 in Stone Halls & Serpent Men, and keeping on their scale made it impossible to be faster & more interesting.

My new system's D20-roll-under, because every other die is too small and 3d6 is too harsh a curve, but closer otherwise to Fighting Fantasy.

@mdhughes multiply that d20 and you've got d100, which is what I'm currently interested in. 😁

@craigmaloney OpenQuest & such are fun gritty systems, but they're harsh, and a lot of players don't like 2-digit math. For a pick-up game, I can't throw someone in the deep end and hope they learn to parry.

@mdhughes if I were doing a pick-up game I'd probably use something like Fudge or Fate with some better guidance on how to build a character. But yeah, d100/BRP-style systems definitely reward more careful character creation.

@craigmaloney What are your thoughts on Tri-Stat?

D20 never really worked for me due to a bad DM not letting me learn it properly before killing off my character and making me her water boy. OTOH BESM was very easy to pick up. I could understand how it might lack the structure you want, though.

@bluestarultor Tri-stat is interesting to me because it tickles the remnants of GURPS that I still have within me. That said it felt a lot like I'd have to fill in a lot of the blanks and create my own structures, at which point I'd rather just use Fudge, Fate, or something else that's lighter and more free-form.

That sucks though about your experience with D&D. That's no fun.

@craigmaloney @bluestarultor are you interested, or do you know, Apocalypse World and his legacy?

@PierreM @bluestarultor I have more Apocalypse World / Blades in the Dark than I can currently read in one lifetime. Thanks!

@craigmaloney Yeah, I was brand new in the gaming club and after a couple sessions with her I stopped. Her brother was good, and I had a lot of fun with him, but he stopped after my first session. The chaperone noticed me looking totally lost on my 4th visit and pointed me to the new BESM campaign. If he hadn't, I probably would have just stopped coming, much less roleplaying.

BESM does work best when the GM is good at adding drama and/or structure. I agree stock leaves gaps.

@craigmaloney I'm running D&D because it's easy to find players and materials... but, man, if I don't find myself fighting with it the whole way. And a lot of it is that fights just aren't that interesting... that the outcome is more up to the dice than player choice. I've been thinking a lot about how to fix that, but I'm not sure if it's still d20 when I'm done.

@CarlCravens @craigmaloney The D20 system is a fantasy survival horror game that people have spent decades mystaking for a general purpose engine.

Thats why the die roll has a flat distribution, why combat is basically a pacing mechanism, and why you have so much fiddly stuff to keep track of.

@Teatearpg @CarlCravens I hadn't quite thought of it that way, but it makes sense. Also makes the later power-gaming design decisions a lot more questionable.

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