@ainmosni Still not remotely the same. Making call-and-response jokes, or asking someone to make a statement about their abuser "best friend", etc. are not comparable to death threats, or to being blocked by half of Twitter by "mistake" for simply existing, or to being constantly invalidated by aggressively clueless randoms. If Wil had *started* with the apology instead of half-heartedly ending with it, maybe people could forgive him.

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@trwnh From what I read, he has never targeted trans people and when he realised what was happening, he tried to fix it. Of course, his mistake did damage and that damage shouldn't be downplayed, but people should be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, it's what makes us human. If social media will just be people mobbing each other for mistakes, maybe we should just give it all up.

The only question I have of you is, do you think he was acting in bad faith?

@ainmosni Well... it certainly seemed that way to a lot of people. His first real post after joining .cloud was to link to a Twitter thread that disingenuously argued that Mastodon was bad for marginalized people. And a few times he advocated for counter.social, an openly xenophobic silo. He was also evasive when people at first asked him if he was going to make a statement about Hardwick. Couple all this with his history on Twitter, and... people had little reason to trust him.

@ainmosni I think ultimately, with a significant portion of Mastodon being built by trans, queer, and other marginalized folk, many of whom were blocked by Wil on Twitter for no good reason? I don't see how that would have ever gone over well,unless he apologized immediately (and he's too unaware). Many of us came here to avoid all that. However, several people also came over very recently, and haven't healed fully; these are the people who took the most affront to his presence.

@trwnh So instead of taking the higher ground, and showing that you can be better, the moment you have the majority you adopt the same tactics as were used on you before? That just feels wrong... Just because the group that's dealing out the toxicity changes doesn't make it less toxic.

Look, I understand that people got hurt by his mistake. I'm not trying to justify that, but I was really hoping that, as a community, we could be above the mob mentality that made the other side so unpleasant.

@ainmosni FWIW, 2 weeks is not enough time to unlearn a whole decade of toxicity from the birdsite. And I'd still say it's not really the "same" -- it's a highly asymmetric experience, you know? The people here asking Wil to clarify his stance on abusers and trans women are but hundreds, maybe. It's just that Wil has never really had to deal with them earnestly, on account of them being blocked on Twitter. The "high ground" would be to avoid him, but if you're confrontational...

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@ainmosni @Lexi On that note, I think I really will attempt to head off to sleep for a few hours. If you'd like to continue this, it'll have to be much later. Cheers!

Wilw, mild politics 

Wilw, mild politics 

Wilw, mild politics 

Wilw, mild politics 

Wilw, mild politics 

Wilw, mild politics 

Wilw, mild politics 

Wilw 

Wilw 

Wilw 

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re: Wilw 

Wilw 

@trwnh I vaguely remember that thread, and I didn't see him sharing it as doing so in bad faith. No idea about counter.social, or him linking to it. I still think that this went in a way that most of us tried to get rid of by moving away from the birdsite.

@ainmosni Fair. I can't say anyone was really acting in bad faith, but I do think a lot of people were reflexively defensive, Wil included.

It was interesting to see the difference in response by account age. I've been here for two years and I was also blocked by wilw, but my first response was to mute him and move on. Similar with many of my older peeps. The thing is that the newer people (Wil included) have only been here for 2 weeks at *most* (since August 16th).

@ainmosni @trwnh yes, he has acted in bad faith for at least a decade. google his comments about hillary clinton, for instance. he's outright misogynistic, while at the same time pretending he's not. he's the worst kind of duplicitous, entitled white guy. good riddance.

wilw, us politics 

wilw, us politics 

wilw, us politics 

wilw, us politics 

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