It's no reflection on trans folks, but I hate being labelled cis. Don't identify as that, don't want to. Apparently saying that makes me a bigot, despite the fact that a chunk of my work is specifically supporting LGBTQI folks. Derp.
@Witchsmeller I know a lot of people who don't like the words cis and trans for themselves, and some of them their gender matches the one they were assigned and some of them it doesn't.
But if your gender truly is the same as the one you were assigned at birth, being grouped with other cis people is appropriate. If you don't want to be grouped with other cis people, perhaps you are in fact trans?
@Witchsmeller But if your gender is truly the same as the one you were assigned at birth and you don't want to be grouped with other cis people... Yeah, you're no ally.
@cassolotl Have you thought that maybe I don't want to be grouped or labelled at all?
@Witchsmeller That's something that's common to cis and trans people in approximately equal amounts, I think! But if the gender you were assigned at birth is the same as your gender, you AT LEAST share many experiences with cisgender people - in the same way that you share experiences with other people whose gender is the same as yours, other people born in the same area as you, people who speak the same language as you, etc.
@Witchsmeller If you reject labels like "English-speaker" and you don't identify with the gender you're usually grouped with (even though you admit that you experience that gender) and you don't identify as [birthcountry]ian and so on, then it's not about trans/cis, and there is no need to mention that one incongruence specifically, right? But when you do mention that one incongruence specifically, it comes across as bigoted.
@cassolotl The thing is, it's only in this instance where I'm called a bigot for not using it, even though I wouldn't use the others either.
@Witchsmeller This instance like, when talking about not wanting to be called cis? I imagine that's because there is a BIG difference in power and experience between being cis and being trans. And, I think people have said "I don't feel cis" while having a cis experience quite a lot, so it's rubbing it in trans people's faces - we "don't feel cis" a LOT more than you, right? We get beaten, murdered, evicted, fired for "not feeling cis", so hearing a cis person say that is very dismissive.
@cassolotl Yep, I completely understand this. It could well be that I simply haven't understood how me being identified as cis actually assists, but thanks for this.
@Witchsmeller I guess it assists first of all by acknowledging that trans people have a much worse time of it just by being trans! And then after that it gets more complex. Part of being a good friend to trans folks is acknowledging that you have a lot of privilege just by accident of birth, sort of thing. It acknowledges that we exist in a transphobic system that you benefit from in a way that we don't. Among other things.
@cassolotl Yep, I hear you. However, if someone expects me to change with zero explanation, and calls me a bigot for not simply jumping to attention, well that's an issue. More of an approach problem than anything.
@Witchsmeller When you know the full story behind that approach problem, it makes a lot more sense. I think probably saying "I don't like to identify on the cis/trans spectrum but I acknowledge that I share experiences with cis people and I have a lot of privilege as a result" would probably help a lot!
@cassolotl Now that I agree with every single word. Actually nearly everything you've said I agree with, but having a conversation is a much more pleasant route to enlightenment, if you get me.
@Witchsmeller I totally do get you! It is really hard though because there's that whole "the marginalised people should not be burdened with the task of enlightening the oppressors" thing, which I do agree with, and I also agree that trans people have a right to be angry with cis people who don't get it or who are accidentally transphobic (which happens often, like, all day every day, we live in a transphobic world - anger is a healthy response!).
@cassolotl It could simply boil down to me, but if I'm walking away with this feeling and I'm very "you be you, and I'll celebrate you for it (unless you're a fuckwith racist/scummo type" how must it be for other people less concerned?
@Witchsmeller I reckon that's not our (trans people's) problem! Like, if ignorant people have a bad experience with trans people and they leave being like "wow they were awful", the problem might be that they generalise based on their experience instead of trying to understand why. Which is a fairly normal human reaction also! And the best thing is when cis people teach each other so that trans people can have a better time without having to educate and suppress our anger all the time.
@cassolotl I hear the last part, and I also hear the...tiredness with explaining (ironically, as you are now) but...I'm just reading your next one.... and that's my point in a nutshell. When it's so little know, but there's an assumption that people should know it and incorporate it into their life, and that they're a bigot if they haven't? That's a regretable assumption.
@Witchsmeller Yeah, that is another understandable but regrettable thing! We're like, ugh, can you not just accept that you are cis and it's a good idea to acknowledge that and acknowledge your cis privilege, etc etc. But to other people it sounds like "damn you for not knowing everything already!!!!" And to us it sounds like you're saying "I've never needed to say I was cis and I'm not about to start now, you transtrender upstarts are so demanding!"
And then, arrows fly... :P
@cassolotl Haha, that's exactly how it goes. I have zero problems with the nub of the issue, but yeah the PR dept :)
Personally I'm happy to, but it's hard when you're not even given the Cliff's notes.
@Witchsmeller Yeah, absolutely. It is really hard. I have this difficulty with issues around racism. Like, someone not-white tells me I'm being racist, and I'm like, please teach me! And they're like, ugh, no, go research. And I have ZERO clue where to start. So I basically can't do anything except... refrain from doing the offensive thing again, and patiently wait until I accidentally stumble upon the info. :P
@cassolotl YES! It's kinda like I don't need to be pulled up the mountain, but please point me toward the mountain without calling me a cunt :)
@Witchsmeller Haha, yes. :D And when being pointed at the mountain is something they can't or don't want to do, which is fair enough, I have to sit with my discomfort and confusion and fear that I will probably do the bad thing again. It's just how it has to be, I think!
@Witchsmeller Though yeah, no one should be calling anyone a cunt! A simple "I can't deal with this right now, please look elsewhere!" would be enough.
@cassolotl Yup. Let's go with that. But again, thankyou for this. I never have any intent to offend, and so on, but having a conversation to develop understanding is a much more pleasant experience as a human.
@Witchsmeller Ahh, you're welcome, and thanks for being open to discussion. :)
@cassolotl Always. Have a great day!
@Witchsmeller And you! :)
@Witchsmeller So like, if 1 in 70 people are trans, that's 79 cis people asking 1 trans person for the answers, when 1 cis person could ask the 1 trans person and then that 1 cis person could inform like 2 cis people, and they could each inform 2 cis people, etc etc. And then the trans person only has to do the explaining once!
But, humans are inefficient. :D
@cassolotl That I completely understand. Honestly, a part of me thinks that the 79 cis (assuming they are well meaning) people are simply curious, but that has a cost.
@Witchsmeller Yeah, curious questions are often unpleasant. "So, were you born a girl or a boy?" "Do you have surgery for that?" "What does it say on your birth certificate?" All genuinely curious and well-meaning questions, but all potentially (and often) very intrusive and transphobic, context-dependent!
@cassolotl see that's bizarre to me. I mean, I would never ask anyone else that kind of question.
@Witchsmeller Yeah! A lot of people have the understanding to not ask rude and intrusive questions. But some people are SO unfamiliar with trans issues that they just have no idea that the question might be intrusive, even though they would never ask these questions of a cis person! Folks are like, "this is a totally new situation so I'm gonna just jump in and see what happens, learn what's good and bad along the way" and for some reason they ask about genitals often????
@Witchsmeller Yeah, the PR dept! Haha. :D And like, yeah, again, I feel like maybe we as the marginalised group shouldn't be lumped with the responsibility of having a PR dept - I feel like the cis people, as the privileged group, should be putting the work in to make us feel comfortable, to help each other understand us and to help each other have enough resources to not have to ask us trans people for answers all the time.