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gender + pronouns, asking question 

so I use she or they pronouns not because of my gender, but because I simply don't care about which pronouns people use for me.

I hadn't considered this problematic, but someone on the birbsite mentioned they also use the same pronouns for the same reason and that someone told them it was a problematic thing to do.

I...don't get that, and searching around the internet hasn't been fruitful. Is choosing pronouns based on preference and not gender problematic?

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin no. use whichever pronouns makes you most comfortable, it doesn't have and shouldn't be tightly associated with gender. actually i'd further say that forcefully associating both is out right cisnormative

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@CobaltVelvet thank you for this reply. its basically what I had been thinking as well (that pronouns don't necessarily need to be associated with gender at all) but I got to thinking that maybe it was a gap in my own knowledge/experience that would make me think that

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@CobaltVelvet @VickyRampin I second this, I was about to write the same thing lol, but I'll add, I think the push to make gender=pronouns was a thing started by transphobes on birbsite that got picked up by others, like the he/him lesbians "uproar" over there despite it being a thing historically for years. I don't get why people are conflating the two, so many languages don't even have gendered pronouns, *shrug*

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin
Some might consider it weakening their case to do it for gender identity.

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@edclayand can you say more about this? Is it that me picking pronouns based on something that isn't gender makes it harder for another's gender to be taken seriously? Is that sorta what you are getting at?

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin
I'm saying that's the emotional motive.

People feel how they feel; I think in asserting a preference and sticking to it, and if you insist others pronouns be respected, you're helping.

But my key point is, some Trans/ non-binary people might feel the pronoun struggle is /their/ struggle. You having a preference may feel like it's infringing on it.

Note: het cis male with trans friends who is not speaking for them.

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@edclayand I really appreciate this nuance! thank you for explaining more.

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin
And i'm also saying this is one of the ones without a perfect, universal, please everyone answer.

No problem.

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin Please feel free to disregard, I'm a white, old, fat, CIS, guy.

My understanding is that *why* you want to be addressed with particular pronouns isn't important. What's important is that is what you have chosen and respecting that decision.

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin no. you get to choose your pronouns and no one gets to audit that choice

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin I wouldn’t say so - but there’s a certain kind of man, specifically, who puts “pronouns: any” in their bio in a way that feels more like the arrogance of privilege

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin Hi. I use he/they as pronouns for similar reasons. I guess that trans non-binary ppl might find the use of "they" problematic, as it's a way of stating they are NB.

I feel that ppl that don't really care about being called their assigned gender are close to NB, but I understand how that could be problematic to someone that transitioned to NB.

My 5 cents, anyway, I might be wrong.

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin i use the same and people can stuff it

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin this came up recently in another context & we seem to have 3 types to deal with:

1. ppl who honestly don't id that strongly or id with multiple, & really just go by admittedly arbitrary preference - "preferred" ok

2. ppl who *do* id strongly w/one or the other - "correct" best

3. transphobes who insist it's all frivolous - use "preferred" specifically to delegitimize

too many of 2 have been burned by shit 3 does for "preferred" to be safe

(1/2)

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin

(2/2)

with the result that talking about "preferred pronouns" is either a minefield or a dogwhistle

even though no one (outside of group 3) actually wants to delegitimize those who are in group 1 and are honestly acting based on literal preference

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin (3/2)

the context was some shriekers getting butthurt over this bccourts.ca/supreme_court/prac

but in the resulting argument some people raising a legit concern that the "correct pronouns" wording kinda makes it sound like the court is pressuring closeted trans people to out themselves

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin thank you for asking this

gender + pronouns, asking question 

@VickyRampin Pronouns aren't an indicator of gender identity. Many trans and non-binary people use pronouns that don't 'match up' with their gender identity. Eg. there are non binary people who exclusively use she/her or he/him pronouns. And there are women, such as passing butches, who use he/him pronouns. You can use whatever pronouns feel right to you, regardless of how you identify. A linguist goes into more detail in this post: kconrod.medium.com/the-preside

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