I agree with "fairness" when it comes to paying your fair share of taxes. But it's defining "fair" that most of us disagree. I think of "fair" as being a balance between how much work a citizen puts into creating his own wealth, versus how much he benefited from being a citizen of his country. I am a profitable business owner and pay far more in taxes than what I take from government. Compare that to an unemployed person who takes far more from government, and pays very little of it back. #taxes
@SteveJohnson It seems from your bio that you travel around all the time on a motorcycle and have no fixed address, so you don't pay for local roads through property taxes. You're a web developer, which means you wouldn't have a job without a government developed project called ARPANET. Your entire business you "created" and lifestyle you enjoy wouldn't exist without tax funded structures. Just because you don't get a voucher from the government doesn't mean you don't use government money.
@SuzanEraslan That's exactly what I pointed out, when I said, "than what I take from government". But in terms of defining, "pay your fair share of taxes", how does one measure that? I already pay a pretty fair pile already. What is going to motivate the next guy into getting off his butt if the solution is to squeeze more taxes out of business owners like me?
@SteveJohnson Have you ever met someone on government assistance? Just jumping through the hoops to secure it is a full time job, and deeply humiliating, and yet most of them still have full time jobs, as well. The reason they don't pay much in taxes is because we live with such a pathetic social safety net and massive tax cuts for the wealthiest that even working full time (or more) they can't afford basic needs like food, shelter, and health care without help.
@SuzanEraslan My step-daughter and her husband are on govt. assistance, and when confronted about "getting a job", there is the standard rolling of the eyes, and the expression of "they just don't get it". So, when I'm judged as someone who should be expected to pay more taxes, I tend to answer back with similar sentiment.
@SteveJohnson Have you asked them about their situation without telling them to get a job? Have you made any attempt to understand why that seems insurmountable to them? And have you considered that they may not be representative?
@SteveJohnson And a lot of these people STILL WORK. They still get up every day despite overwhelming horrors and go to work, come home, and spend all of their "free time" jumping through hoops to try to get housing, food for their kids, medical treatment. But why? Why shouldn't they have a safety net in place to care for them while they recover from devastation? And why should they have to put in 40 hours a week of dancing for the bureaucratic circus whether they work or not?
@SuzanEraslan Look, I'm not questioning how unhappy they are, assuming they are unhappy. My initial point is that "fairness" is subjective, and that there are many ways to define what a "fair share" is. Its far too easy today to categorize someone a fascist, just because they have a differing point of view. When in fact every point of view is valid.
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@SteveJohnson And as for dismissing people on government assistance as "maybe unhappy," that's the least compassionate thing I've ever heard. The people I detailed for you aren't "maybe unhappy." They're not "having a bummer of a day." Maybe ask your stepdaughter what happened that she felt she had to turn to the state for help. Maybe ask why she didn't feel she could turn to her mother or to you.
@SuzanEraslan I can accept that she's unhappy. But that doesn't invalidate my perspective, nor categorize me as a fascist just because I express an opposing opinion. I can see that you are unwilling to accept that there is more than one way of looking at things, and you're free to have that. I wouldn't call you insensitive for that, just sorry that you are unwilling to respect another opinion.
@SteveJohnson You know, it's interesting that twice you've inferred that I think you fascist despite me never calling you that. Additionally, you clearly don't accept my point of view as valid, as you've repeatedly dismissed and minimized it to "these people are unhappy" instead of "these people are endangered and suffering and have no support network." To minimize them as "unhappy" proves irrefutably that you don't think my point valid, because you keep altering it to something else entirely.
@SteveJohnson Anyway, it's pretty clear that you're going to cling to the idea that all points are valid and therefore you have no reason to accept the perspective of anyone else, ever, so I don't think we have anything left to talk about. I've taken the step of muting you so as not to see anything else in my TL that inspires me to bang my head against the wall. Have a good day.
@SuzanEraslan Yes, every point of view is valid, even those you don't agree with. Accepting that is the first step towards having a constructive dialog. I can certainly accept that the points you are making are valid to you. Can you do that for me?
@SteveJohnson No, I'm sorry. I won't accept as valid any point of view that presumes that a person is less human based on their gender, race, religion, sexuality, cis/trans status, or level of ability, any more than I would accept as valid the "point of view" that disease is caused by miasma or that god told someone to murder people. These aren't debatable points, they're not opinions, they're dangerous fallacies that actively harm people.
@SteveJohnson I deal with people on government assistance everyday, many in desperate, horrifying situations not of their own creation-- mothers in domestic violence shelters who have fled with nothing but their kids in the middle of the night to escape men who threaten to kill them, people who have been injured or permanently disabled on the job and can't get back their previous level of employment and income, people who have been sexually assaulted and diagnosed with HIV with no insurance.