I've been trying Kdenlive instead of Adobe Premiere Pro for video editing as an experiment over the weekend for a lil music video for a friend I filmed a while ago. I've had to think outside the box a bit and massively change my workflow for multi-camera stuff and the compositing is very basic but overall it's not too bad for a quick easy video editor =)

@UnclearFuture I tried OpenShot briefly a few months ago, of the two I think Kdenlive is probably the better one but I didn't try OpenShot out for as long so still worth giving it a go!

@Shrigglepuss Thank you, I'm going to try it out OpenShot one day, I would try Kden but don't like KDE or GNOME with the way they force having a load of libraries and programs etc you don't necessarily want or need, on you, heh.

@UnclearFuture Yeah, using a Kdenlive wasn't ideal because I use GNOME. Wayland struggled a bit with it, had to switch to Xorg for some of the dialogue windows to work, but apart from that it seemed fine!

@UnclearFuture For me personally it's been fine, been using it since it was default in Fedora, only really had issues with this program and colour pickers up to now =D

@Shrigglepuss Interesting about the colour pickers, but maybe they're only coded for xorg? If they're from like websites etc, why would they not be able to pick them up? Hmmm.

@UnclearFuture I'm not sure to be honest, but the gimp colour picker or a stand-alone one I tried didn't work so I presume it's picking whatever colour is under the cursor in an xorg-only way (colour pickers that can pick from anywhere on the screen btw)

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@UnclearFuture I'm not sure, but I presume they're working on it- both were GTK3 programs =) It's not a huge deal, I just take a screenshot and pick the colour from the image if needed, it's very rare I need to do this to be fair

@UnclearFuture No worries! How's XFCE these days? I've not used it for a few years, has much changed over there?

@Shrigglepuss Stable, it doesn't change massively, I think that's what I like a lot about it, it doesn't change a lot and remains fairly stable because of it, it doesn't require a lot of programs or libraries to be installed (unlike GNOME/KDE) and has pretty much everything I need/want plus if you want some programs like a screenshooter it has those in its optional to install section of programs :)

@UnclearFuture Yay! It was my main desktop environment when Gnome 3 was still fresh, I remember it like an old friend so I'm happy to hear things are still much the same over there =D

@Shrigglepuss @UnclearFuture color pickers currenlty don't work on Wayland, but IIRC there's something on the way - you can check the gcolor3 dev's blog for more details.

@brainblasted @UnclearFuture Nice one! Thanks for the input, I don't really know much about it other than to do things the oldschool way for now haha

@brainblasted It's frustrating how limited things are in Wayland right now. A desktop with icons or widgets is practically impossible there on a protocol level as of now for instance.
@xrevan86 no? I'm pretty sure KDE plasma has desktop widgets icons, and they have a Wayland session (I may be mistaken, as I don't use it myself). There's also a Desktop Icons extension for GNOME.
@brainblasted Ah, the trick is that the Wayland compositor draws it all on its own, so there's no problem that the protocol cannot do that.
Same can be said about screenshots or colour picking โ€“ the compositor has no problem accessing the whole image surface.
@brainblasted So something like PCManFM won't be able to draw a desktop without becoming a Wayland compositor.

@xrevan86 @brainblasted If you're talking about placing files on the desktop beneath the windows, well it is the same situation with X11 there as it is on Wayland.

For a way to implement it outside of the window manager, I suggest you take a look at: appcenter.elementary.io/com.gi

@alcinnz Well, that's an edge case.
In X11 it is possible to mark a window a certain way, and then the WM that follows the standard will place the window as a desktop.
How would one approach that in Wayland?

@xrevan86 @brainblasted Wayland is actually pretty featured and I have made it my daily drive

here are however two things I cannot currently do in Wayland.

Stream content from my desktop, there is a hacky plugin for obs to use the gnome screen recorder for a task it was clearly not designed for, but I can only select โ€˜montiorsโ€™ and not arbitrary windows to stream. This doesnโ€™t come up much for me.
Draw art, because GIMP is currently on GTK2, which is not wayland compatable, and Krita, which while on QT5, does not yet support wayland and (apparently) does not intend to until at least 2019. xwayland will โ€˜acceptโ€™ a tablet because for all it cares its just another pointer, but it will not allow for pen pressure (and it does wonky shit because it doesnโ€™t really like how two pointers exist).

Desktop icons have always been on the desktop environment to impliment, regardless of on X11 or Wayland, and while I disagreed with Gnomeโ€™s Decision to drop them before a replacement is ready, there is now a plugin that implements it as an extension (which i assume will be added to the Gnome list of supported extensions because it fits nicely into โ€˜Gnome Classicโ€™)

@brainblasted @xrevan86 basically, its almost done for Gnome, don't know about KDE (they have done a feature freeze to X11 support a few months ago, so I imagine the pace is going to pick up dramatically). The fact that its only GNOME and KDE who are close to ready means its effectively linux only at the moment (which I imagine the *BSD folks are pretty annoyed about despite probably scoffing at the idea of actually using it)
@brainblasted @xrevan86 (Plasma does not support BSD because of a lack of man power and interest, gnome has deliberately tied their development into Systemd, which is intentionally forgoes POSIX to take advantage of linux only features, so while its not unportable if you untie those aspects, it becomes an obnoxious maintenance issue for the often smaller Operating Systems that do not use SystemD or run the Linux Kernel in general.
> gnome has deliberately tied their development into systemd
@oct2pus Actually, GNOME still can be built without systemd entirely.
I saw articles that GNOME fixed their act, so I checked compilation flags of gnome-session โ€“ consolekit is still there.
@xrevan86 they did but console kit ID defacto dead. People need to step up witj an alternative to logind basically if we want gnomw to be properly portable again.

The gentoos variant was apparently abandoned or the gnome devs refused it upstream because it had way too many bugs (Lil tired and getting out of bed rn )
@oct2pus Is ConsoleKit2 dead? Well, darn it.
Then, I guess, the course of action would be to patch GNOME to use elogind instead of systemd-logind.
Shouldn't take much effort to slap it all together, the API is the same.
@xrevan86 i thought elogind was supposed to be a shim for systemd-logind

im fairly certain thats the exact way the gentoo dev(s) was/were doing it and it was way too buggy to be merged in.
@oct2pus No, it's similiar to eudev โ€“ a semi-fork that takes logind from systemd and makes it work on its own.
@xrevan86 @brainblasted
have you seen the layer-shell extension protocol?

It's basically a protocol that lets you put custom bars/docks/widgets/etc on the screen managed by a wayland compositor that supports it.

It was initially developed in the sway/wlroots community, and but now also has support of KDE and Purism, and they're trying to push it into wayland-protocols.
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