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Remember that time Dwarf Fortress had an economy system, but they quickly removed it and went back to socialism because a select few always got rich while everyone else starved and there was no way to rectify it?

Dwarf Fortress is communist praxis, as evidenced by the above fact, as well as how players often go out of their way to limit what the mayor can do so as to keep things running as efficiently as possible.

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Turns out communism is logical, but capitalism is not. Who knew? 😇

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Dwarf Fortress players to the ruling class: Just stay out of our way!

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We do need to correct something: Food was not the issue in the economic system. Dwarves could still get food, even when in debt.

The problem was housing, where dwarves could be evicted if they couldn't pay rent.

And since the introduction of money made them so obsessed with it that they'd spend more time counting their money than actually doing something useful, they wouldn't get paid for the jobs they weren't doing and basically, money ruined their lives.

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@KitsuneAlicia

Whenever I look at those city simulators that seem to punish anything other than neoliberalism what assumptions is the software making that I could tweak to make even something like social democracy work in-game

@zzz The whole "crime" mechanic is what amazes us most in a lot of these games.

Cities: Skylines, for example, has the populace start to get upset about not having a police station -- even when there's no crime.

Why the fuck do you need an occupying force when literally everyone's happy?

@KitsuneAlicia

I remember there was a YouTube video of someone uses one of these games and making a libertarian paradise where everyone ended up being billionaires, the economy was centered on ski resorts, and eventually everyone was able to move to outer space.

@zzz And yet inflation somehow didn't kick in. It's almost like if games implemented that crucial part of capitalism, none of that would be possible. :think_bread:

@KitsuneAlicia

More pertinently, no discussion of who works the ski resorts.

@zzz lol. Good point. We can see the conversation now.

"But I'm sure someone comes back down to Earth once in a while to work at the ski resorts."

"If you had enough money to spend a million dollars every day and still never run out, would you work as a rental counter employee at a run-down ski resort for minimum wage?"

"Hell, no!"

"I rest my case."

@elilla @KitsuneAlicia also I would love to believe that it was removed because such a monetary system doesn't work but I think it was more of the whole map getting covered by super tiny money and game just couldn't handle it

@charlag @KitsuneAlicia I didn't play at the time, but according to the wiki you could run the economy without physical coins in 40d, relying only on account balances, to avoid this problem. But then you still had to deal with nobles seizing private property of goods the community had built for trade, and with dwarves not being able to afford rent or being evicted after going into debt for food (except nobles), the things she describes in the video.

@KitsuneAlicia Are you kidding me! Capitalism is THE MOST dwarf fortress thing, because it's a completely self defeating system that only causes problems for the player. That's what a good game of dwarf fortress IS ALL ABOUT.

I hope they re-enable the economy, especially now that the dwarves can have guilds. Looking forward to seeing the little dorfs go on strikes.

@KitsuneAlicia the main issue iirc was that if you made all the housing in the fort valuable enough, no one would be able to afford it and the prices were totally inflexible, leaving all the poor unhoused even though plenty of lavish apartments were available
hmmm....

@tinytoydragon Oh, if you think that's accurate, you should see the justice system, which is still in the game.

Basically, if someone commits a crime, and you've opted into the justice system... well, we'll let this comment from a YouTube video on the subject (we boosted it earlier) explain.

cw: described gore, PTSD

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