@Fritillaria2 @webmind
But some of us struggle to form close groups even among those willing to be different, even among those who celebrate diversity and weirdness.

@artsyhonker

@Fritillaria2

I support that, why 'But' though, your statement doesn't seem to oppose anything here?

@Fritillaria2 @webmind apologies; I probably misunderstood.

@artsyhonker

@Fritillaria2

To be clear, I fully support the desire to one self apart and to form new bonds over that. I wish myself there is a global norm in supporting difference and recognizing it for it's value.

To me that doesn't mean all difference is good and there is a pattern of using it to isolate oneself which I find worry some.

It's also not free of risk, depending on your local culture it can be quite a task not to be underestimated.

@Fritillaria2 @webmind
For clarity:

I am not choosing weirdness as a means to isolate myself.

I am weird even at my most compliant and when I'm trying hardest to conform. I am basically incapable of fitting into certain social contexts. For that, others deem me "too weird" and isolation results. Attempts to compensate can exacerbate the situation.

I think something similar is what @Fritillaria2 was referring to.

@artsyhonker @webmind That’s exactly what I meant, aka Kathryn.

My only indictment was the trend of seeing weirdness only in terms of an identification against the norm, and not understanding that there is a darker, more isolating “weirdness” that becomes, not a choice but a sentence, served by an individual who can’t even fit themselves into a group that celebrates “weirdness”.

@artsyhonker @webmind It’s become personal, having been the person ostracized for being too weird, or the “wrong” weird. I’ve lost friends because of it; others keep their distance.

It makes me bitter, when others celebrate weirdness as a choice and an expression or a marker of a larger group identity, and I’m given no choice but to be isolated and imprisoned behind the label.

The statement “I’d rather be weird than...” is made in ignorance of that.

@Fritillaria2

@artsyhonker

I understand your bitterness, but wouldn't a celebration of it and with that an acceptance solve that problem for people in the future? Having places where ones weirdness is welcomed?

@Fritillaria2 @webmind

Life is still easier for people who get to choose whether to be weird.

I don't know what would fix this, but pretending that weirdness is a fashion statement can actually make things harder for obligate weirdos, when we're assumed to be normal "underneath".

@Fritillaria2 @webmind
Think about it like this:

If someone wears glasses even though they don't need to, just because they think it looks cool? OK, fine, whatever.

When that happens so much that someone can't understand that *I cannot see* without my glasses, there's a problem.

(No, I probably can't wear contacts, though I am trying again with that. We'll see.)

@Fritillaria2 @webmind
Maybe instead of getting six different pairs of cheap glasses with cosmetic, non-correcting lenses, these people could campaign to subsidise my -8 prescription corrective lenses so that I'm not terrified of what might happen if they break when I can't afford to replace them (...one reason I'm trying again to find contacts that fit my severe astigmatism is that I could keep a few pairs spare more easily than I can with glasses.)

@artsyhonker

@Fritillaria2

Hmm, I wouldn't mix social responsibility (supporting you in your health and ability to function) with personal expression. These aren't either/or. Neither do I think I could judge on what lies beneath a seemingly superficial expression of being different. It could very well be caused by a strong need to feel to belong. These patterns aren't uncommon.

@Fritillaria2 @webmind

I think the point isn't that it's either/or -- of course it isn't -- but that these choices *do* affect others, often those who have much less choice.

This is a thing that happens, it makes some people feel bad. I'm not really here for a debate on whether my feelings are right or wrong.

I'm not sure separating social identification and social responsibility is a great plan either, but that's a digression.

@Fritillaria2 @webmind
I'm also not here to police who considers themselves "weird" or not, and I have no real desire to hamper people's freedom of personal expression. If someone wants to identify as weird, or adopt counter-cultural fashion/behaviour/whatever, I won't stop them.

All I'm saying is that none of these things exist in a vacuum.

@artsyhonker

@Fritillaria2

I agree. That assumption could do that. Which I think can be a struggle within the celebration/acceptance of it.

Foremost, I think the main 'problem' lies with people not accepting people because they are different. Where those celebrating/advocating weirdness/difference I would consider potential allies.

That said, I don't want to ignore any pain the popularisation might cause. That is real, but think the root is elsewhere

@webmind Hm. I think you’ve misunderstood at least half of what I’ve said.