@webmind And thank heaven for it, too, but recently I've seen "weirdness" being romanticized, and it's making me uncomfortable. It's like Weirdness Lite, and the world would be boring without it, but it ignores the consequences of what's truly weird: isolation, even from the people radically different. It's hitting too close to home, I guess.

@Fritillaria2
I think I know what you mean, but also think it's very like the hip vs square thing.

Or the contemporary hipster: "Above all, they wanted to be recognised for being different—to diverge from the mainstream and carve a cultural niche all for themselves."

There is isolation in that, but also group forming. Uniting over being different or perhaps eventually just something new.

@Fritillaria2 @webmind
But some of us struggle to form close groups even among those willing to be different, even among those who celebrate diversity and weirdness.

@artsyhonker

@Fritillaria2

I support that, why 'But' though, your statement doesn't seem to oppose anything here?

@Fritillaria2 @webmind apologies; I probably misunderstood.

@artsyhonker

@Fritillaria2

To be clear, I fully support the desire to one self apart and to form new bonds over that. I wish myself there is a global norm in supporting difference and recognizing it for it's value.

To me that doesn't mean all difference is good and there is a pattern of using it to isolate oneself which I find worry some.

It's also not free of risk, depending on your local culture it can be quite a task not to be underestimated.

@Fritillaria2 @webmind
For clarity:

I am not choosing weirdness as a means to isolate myself.

I am weird even at my most compliant and when I'm trying hardest to conform. I am basically incapable of fitting into certain social contexts. For that, others deem me "too weird" and isolation results. Attempts to compensate can exacerbate the situation.

I think something similar is what @Fritillaria2 was referring to.

@artsyhonker @webmind That’s exactly what I meant, aka Kathryn.

My only indictment was the trend of seeing weirdness only in terms of an identification against the norm, and not understanding that there is a darker, more isolating “weirdness” that becomes, not a choice but a sentence, served by an individual who can’t even fit themselves into a group that celebrates “weirdness”.

@artsyhonker @webmind It’s become personal, having been the person ostracized for being too weird, or the “wrong” weird. I’ve lost friends because of it; others keep their distance.

It makes me bitter, when others celebrate weirdness as a choice and an expression or a marker of a larger group identity, and I’m given no choice but to be isolated and imprisoned behind the label.

The statement “I’d rather be weird than...” is made in ignorance of that.

@Fritillaria2

@artsyhonker

I understand your bitterness, but wouldn't a celebration of it and with that an acceptance solve that problem for people in the future? Having places where ones weirdness is welcomed?

@Fritillaria2 @webmind

Life is still easier for people who get to choose whether to be weird.

I don't know what would fix this, but pretending that weirdness is a fashion statement can actually make things harder for obligate weirdos, when we're assumed to be normal "underneath".

@Fritillaria2 @webmind
Think about it like this:

If someone wears glasses even though they don't need to, just because they think it looks cool? OK, fine, whatever.

When that happens so much that someone can't understand that *I cannot see* without my glasses, there's a problem.

(No, I probably can't wear contacts, though I am trying again with that. We'll see.)

@Fritillaria2 @webmind
Maybe instead of getting six different pairs of cheap glasses with cosmetic, non-correcting lenses, these people could campaign to subsidise my -8 prescription corrective lenses so that I'm not terrified of what might happen if they break when I can't afford to replace them (...one reason I'm trying again to find contacts that fit my severe astigmatism is that I could keep a few pairs spare more easily than I can with glasses.)

@artsyhonker

@Fritillaria2

Hmm, I wouldn't mix social responsibility (supporting you in your health and ability to function) with personal expression. These aren't either/or. Neither do I think I could judge on what lies beneath a seemingly superficial expression of being different. It could very well be caused by a strong need to feel to belong. These patterns aren't uncommon.

@Fritillaria2 @webmind

I think the point isn't that it's either/or -- of course it isn't -- but that these choices *do* affect others, often those who have much less choice.

This is a thing that happens, it makes some people feel bad. I'm not really here for a debate on whether my feelings are right or wrong.

I'm not sure separating social identification and social responsibility is a great plan either, but that's a digression.

@Fritillaria2 @webmind
I'm also not here to police who considers themselves "weird" or not, and I have no real desire to hamper people's freedom of personal expression. If someone wants to identify as weird, or adopt counter-cultural fashion/behaviour/whatever, I won't stop them.

All I'm saying is that none of these things exist in a vacuum.

@artsyhonker

@Fritillaria2

I agree. That assumption could do that. Which I think can be a struggle within the celebration/acceptance of it.

Foremost, I think the main 'problem' lies with people not accepting people because they are different. Where those celebrating/advocating weirdness/difference I would consider potential allies.

That said, I don't want to ignore any pain the popularisation might cause. That is real, but think the root is elsewhere

@webmind Hm. I think you’ve misunderstood at least half of what I’ve said.