A month ago, everyone: "Yay, the freedom of decentralized social media where communities can form around their own values and according to their own internal rules."
Today, everyone: "What we need is a central code of conduct by which everyone must conform or risk punishment imposed by people outside their community."
New boss, same as the old boss.
@jason Maybe. I just don't buy that the remedy is a central code of conduct enforced by a self-appointed council of behavior monitors. Octodon has a very clear code of conduct by which this instance will permit internal behavior and who it will federate with. There is no need for instance mods to get together to issue rulings on who is welcome and who is shunned.
> Because that ceases to be a matter of purely internal affairs.
I’m not really clear on what this means or why it’s a problem.
> It also punishes people who belong to an instance judged problematic who have done nothing wrong by blocking their association with other instances.
This happens already and has nothing to do with whether or not instances join together in their codes of conduct. Plus, I can still follow whoever I want on a banned instance.
@jason If I'm an instance moderator, I have every right to pick who can belong and who can federate. If I join a council that issues edicts on the internal behavior of other instances, I am no longer setting rules for my own users. I am setting rules for moderators of other instances by threatening a boycott of federation, which in Mastodon world is the same as a boycott of trade.
@Frankenbeans that makes sense. I can see how that would be problematic.
I guess the talk I’ve seen wouldn’t necessarily lead to that conclusion, though it is a possible outcome. I’ve seen talk of agreeing on a CoC and working together when a “bad” instance persists in acting poorly, which doesn’t have lead to what you mentioned above.
Bottom line for me: why can’t people who want a safe space to interact have one? That seems to be the heart of it, and I hate that it seems impossible.
@Frankenbeans One would say that people are so used to living hidden behind a higher entity with full power that they feel the need to create one so as not to have to assume the responsibilities of freedom and free will. People should understand they are allowed to have an opinion different than the others, even if it's not written in a golden book.
And if they don't like the admin of their instance, they have the possibility to move to another one, or to create their own !
@Frankenbeans I don't think that's a fair framing of the discussion. If instances want a shared CoC because it's been unfortunately made clear that one is needed to their members or admins, that's a decision they're free to make *because decentralization allows them to make that choice themselves*
There's no boss - new or old - just people making decisions for themselves and their communities.
@Frankenbeans Yeah. I seriously don't get it. Block people/instances you don't like. I thought that was the entire point. We aren't all the same. We're not all gonna agree. We're gonna federate. Whole dumpster fires can be blocked off or not. But we don't have to all live in the same dumpster fire.
@paco Yes, at some point users have a responsibility for what shows up in their feed. That doesn't excuse harassment and/or people making shitty, inappropriate comments. And, if you witness that happening as an individual, you have an obligation to step in on the victim's behalf. But, policing that doesn't rate setting up a self-appointed council of behavior police to issue edicts about who is okay and who isn't.
@Frankenbeans This is every discussion about trolls in USENET ever, 30 years ago. Welcome to a decentralized, autonomous server operator world. It's like this, by design - unbannable people, people getting more accounts, people that annoy you. The only thing that works is filtering at the reader end, killfiling, collaborative killfiling. Everything else - nope. Getting people off the network - nope, especially when they operate their own servers or networks.
@Frankenbeans An instance is like a country with its own borders and its own sovereignty. It is quite natural some kind of diplomacy is needed. Never heard of a whitelist council before but sounds like a really bad idea. What is needed is a "official" place for admins to talk. A sort of UN so to say.
@Frankenbeans There are more ways than one to fight a war... diplomacy is a way to be ahead of them. Diplomacy doesn't mean you have to adhere to demands. Just that you listen to them. You don't have to invade to win a war.. you merely have to make it unpleasant enough for people to leave. Talking about issues as adults is a much better strategy.
@Frankenbeans The UN was a result after the WW2 and was supposed to help keep the peace. Where countries could come with their concerns. Yes, it is a bit overthinking but also a very telling example how the world works. Conformity is not inherently bad. It is neutral. Having people talk about issues reduces calamity. Calamity is a bad.