idk you but in the middle of my #foss life picking a license was an important point of 'starting a project', it was implicitly unclean to publish code that wasn't under a well chosen free and fsf approved license
what's a free license? a set of rights to everyone. except no one i actually care about will read or honor this license. all it does is enable corporations to use it; with no requirement that they do anything back to me except share their source code in some conditions. and that's not enough by a lot. normalizing this as 'liberation' is fucked up
@cwebber i'm not saying enforcing patents and copyrights is a good thing here, at all. those are to be obliterated as well
@cwebber like i'm not advocating for the copyright system as the binary opposite of Free software. i'm saying the Free Software Movement was so busy trying not to be communist that they based their whole ideology on trickle down economics
@CobaltVelvet For all the criticisms one might make of RMS, dude's a socialist
I think you're more critiquing the ESR "open source marketed to large corporations" wing of history
And maybe you think copyleft is insufficient but I used to work at Creative Commons, I sat in the trenches of the "defining noncommercial" stuff. NC doesn't compose, and this approach eventually results in people becoming copyright maximalists... which ultimately helps corporations more than anyone else
@CobaltVelvet Tragedy of the commons is a real problem. It's also a tragedy when in trying to prevent the commons from being exploited, the cure causes more sickness than the disease
@CobaltVelvet (I mean technically this is more the free rider problem than tragedy of the commons, but anyway)
@cwebber ok by movement there i meant from then to now, and that greater failure is partly theirs. dude is indeed a socialist but i usually find his socialism petty even for a socialist
@CobaltVelvet I'm not defending RMS as much as I'm trying to define where the problems are, and saying that "basing the whole ideology on trickle down economics" is a giant handwave that's untrue
@cwebber free software as a whole simply ignores away the whole question of how wealth is displaced through it. developers don't get paid? oh well it's just a kink in the market. get a real job on the side to fund your library. get a grant lmao. make a cooperative platform to reward workers per lines of code with a blockcha
how does it sustains itself? oh well the money will eventually reach the population somehow, and workers will automatically emerge. push them a little harder if not. convince them it's Fun somehow and make them paid for it
there is no way to solve capitalism with licenses. corporations must burn or fight for a crumb of right to use my work
I didn't intend personal escalation...
I liked your argumentation about how NC doesn't compose, but I'm not sure what's the answer then.
AGPL was certainly part of it (though, like other licences, it leaves everyone powerless if one political leader just decides that free licences are not enforceable), but it's clearly not enough.
@lienrag by not providing large corporations with work. i can't answer to the first part of that question because neither has anything to do with my point and i won't argue with your projections of my ideas
@lienrag ever heard of the vague concept behind a strike. are you aware of the fact that behind large multi billion dollar corporations are exploited workers that are critical to the corporation's survival, and especially so in case of the larger free software ecosystem
You are right.
But softwares are not used only by corporations, so how do you plan to make free software for workers, cooperatives, unions, associations, and prevent corporations from using them ?
There is work in progress about "licences à réciprocité" (sorry, don't know how to translate) but how do they compose ?
Also, your initial messages were not giving the impression that these were what you wanted to argue for...
@be @cwebber @CobaltVelvet I will say I don't agree with how much the FSF (and some of their advocates) focuses on the licensing aspect, but I do tend to agree with them on a majority of points. Certainly compared to ESR...
Especially since today mainstream computing is largely trapped inside "cloud" services & locked-down "mobile" devices!
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