every time someone goes "irc was so good it's sad to see it get replaced" i laugh into madness a little

do i really have to remind you how shitty and dangerously unusable it is. authoritative point i use it everyday

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the primary way to make it bearable is to run an irc client on a server and that should give you a little hint that something is fucked up

when you leave denial that's a monthly fee, a machine to maintain, and sysadmin skills required just to join a chatroom in decent conditions

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@CobaltVelvet I think this is one of the things that make someone like me, who learnt Linux in college and enjoys messing about with command lines, feel a connection with IRC
But this does not, in any way make IRC "better"

@CobaltVelvet This is like other hobby things, like custom keyboards and home made cars, they're only better for someone who's got the time, energy and know-how to mess about with weird technology
Most people just want to have things that work and are reliable, and they shouldn't need to care more than that

@CobaltVelvet You have that issue with any chat system.
It's just that most of the time, you run a "lightweight client" (to use bitcoin terminology) to connect to a "heavy client" hosted by someone else for "free".
There are ways to do that for IRC too, eg. IRCCloud, The Lounge, or Quassel.

@val okay but that's the worst argument and it's based on current irc limitations

you already have a server and there is no good reason not to merge the "heavy client" into it

that client does two things:
- temporarily store logs
- relay my connection

the server could effortlessly make the second need disappear with reasonable privacy, and very easily store some logs, even encrypted for one client

@CobaltVelvet Agreed. Thankfully IRCv3 added the bits needed to do this to the protocol, now someone needs to implement it.

@CobaltVelvet Oh I forgot, Inspircd already does the log storage and replays it to the client when it rejoins a channel

@CobaltVelvet That's also a hint though as to how peoples' interfaces with machines have changed.

At one point, people tended to run one machine, a desktop, and:

a) it was more acceptable to both hop offline and online. Now there's more expectation to be Very Online
b) that desktop could be connected all the time, but you weren't always connected to it


a) people have multiple devices, want to access from each
b) the expectation to be Very Online has increased

@CobaltVelvet I'll note that XMPP Multi User Chat provides most of the things people claim that IRC is missing, but it never became as popular; I'd argue that's primary for interface reasons, since back in the day IM applications kind of shoehorned in chatroom type interfaces into their one-on-one chat interfaces and it didn't feel right

Some more thoughts:

@CobaltVelvet I look forward to the day where everyone has one Very Personal Computer that they control that they always use, which is Very Online, and is connected to their body at (almost) all times. That could reduce the need for device synchronization without the need for an intermediate stateful server.

@cwebber good but also meh in the way that every thing is then linked to every one with low latency and that has so many privacy and reliability implications

having a small buffer on the server is good

but really that's describing pop3 with hypothetically non-shitty clients that can loosely sync between devices

@CobaltVelvet Nothing says you can't have intermediate servers doing store-and-forward. That's common in p2p networks which preserve anonymity.

That is sooo #cyberpunk 🤩

Imagine a future where everyone's talking online and the communications are overcrowded and there's something like an online burnout syndrome and people need to take expensive vacations I LOVE IT! 😍

So it's like the weird nervous syndrome in the Johnny Mnemonic movie but it' mental health instead of physiological...

If anyone can explore more of this, @ me.


@cwebber @CobaltVelvet I personally would like a mobile phone that is powerful enough to place in a "dock" attached to a full-size monitor and keyboard. Same device doing the computing/networking, but seamlessly able to be used with a non-mobile UX.

@CobaltVelvet "Xmpp was so good it's sat to see it get replaced"

Me despite knowing that jabber is a pile of hot garbage

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